Does the Ibrox klanbase need help?
As in a formal therapeutic intervention?
Well, that seems to be the suggestion at the end of this thoughtful piece from Hugh MacDonald in the Herald today.
You can read it here.
Here is something worth considering from Hugh’s piece:
“Celtic won 12 consecutive, domestic trophies – the last just before Christmas – without the need to call in police in riot gear. St Johnstone won the league cup this season and the idea of fan disorder in Perth is absurd to the point of producing a guffaw.
“This is a Rangers problem. This is a problem that permeates the Rangers support. It flared up gaudily and violently last week. It occurred in March after the league was won. It happened in Manchester at the UEFA Cup final in 2008. It happens with a weary regularity.”
That is worth re-stating:
“This is a Rangers problem. This is a problem that permeates the Rangers support.”
I recall that the Everyone Anyone campaign stated that the club would send supporters guilty of discriminatory chanting to “rehab”.
You can read about it here in this Daily Radar piece from 2019.
One point in Hugh’s piece that I would concur with is that the Ibrox klanbase only do rage. Even after Sevco’s inaugural title win, all they had in them was anger.
Moreover, when they found that George Square was a Fenian free zone, they turned on each other.
Dear reader, this undoubtedly a very dysfunctional subscultre.
Your humble correspondent has known this for many years and has written about it here and in other places.
I find encouraging it that the Ibrox klanbase is increasingly being viewed as a serious social problem to be tackled by public agencies and wider civil society.
My last, and undoubtedly final, journey into higher education was a postgraduate course in Psychotherapy some 15 years ago.
Throughout my journalism on the Ibrox story, be it the suicidal hubris that destroyed the original Rangers or the recurring racism of the fans, the therapist in me has been proffering insights.
Yes, Mr MacDonald, they definitely need help.
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It could be argued that a club is more than the 11 players, but also (and in some cases, mainly) the fans.
In which case, the solution to fan’s misbehaviour could be viewed as a misdemeanour by the club – so penalise the club.
Riot after winning a league game = null points; after winning a cup game = reverse the result. A few self-inflicted penalties should be enough to encourage behavioural changes.
Measures such as this is the ONLY way to stop them rioting. Other measures have been tried until they’ve literally gone blue-in-the-face. Section of stands being closed have had little effect.
If deduction of points or reversal of cup results has no effect then a step to ground closure for a proscribed period might have a chance. Then closure for a year if this fails.
Totally agree.
Previous excuse for not docking points was… why punish the players due to the behaviour of their fans.
We’ve seen the way the players behaved…. throw the book at them. Deduct points, banned from Europe, kicked out the Scottish Cup.
Any threat of civil unrest could be dealt with by their beloved soldiers.
However I’ll predict nothing will change. Nothing.
I was discussing Hugh’s article with a friend who made this observation on their ‘cry for help’.
“Rangers is a symptom of the Orange Order. In many other countries things like Orange Walks would have become sort of national celebrations. Carnival for example, which is still a celebration, but which is now completely divorced from Lent even in Catholic countries (and Notting Hill – in August?). Or the St Patrick’s Day parades in the US, which are attended by black and Hispanics without even seeming irrelevant. The OO though, still define themselves by anti-Catholicism – by who they hate. Loyalty to the Queen and the state …. against the Catholics.
Even though they’ve had 300 years of hegemony, they still feel threatened. They like their anger, it defines them, like in Tam O’Shanter, ‘nursing their wrath to keep it warm.’ It would take someone willing to make the grand gesture of making the OO inclusive, of seeing that they have a future rather than just an imagined past.
There’s an old joke, how many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb? Well, first the lightbulb must want to be changed. And that’s the OO.”
It will never change until a black live matters type protests nationwide movement can embarace the Scottish authorities and eufa threaten to sanction the club that indirectly has promoted this behaviour
When I think of ra peepo, I always remember the line uttered by the F.B.I. man re the racist murderers in Mississippi Burning…………….
What’s WRONG with these people?
You are all wrong, the cause?
“Soup taker extraordinaire ( He can’t need the money, can he?) and philosopher, Kenny Dalgleish has got to the root of the problem,
“Success leads to celebration. Celebration leads to alcohol being taken.
Alcohol consumption can lead to poor behaviour.”
There you have it, it isn’t just an Ibrox problem.
Actually Kenny, by dismissing the seriousness of it, you along with others in the media are part of the problem.
Let’s be serious,this is the country’s team that your talking about.Why change the habits of a lifetime,as it has worked great for so long.The SNP have been posted missing,as have many others,and the only way that this exists is,because the majority of people don’t have a problem with it.
Now we are once again seeing the power of the people who run the country.
Step up Celtic,and fight for the cause,fight for the people who are happy with the situation,for the media who continue to link you with this vile lot,with the football authorities who do SFA,pretty sure you are on a winner.
No change in Scotland,as we are a protestant country ( So let it be written,so let it be done)
Sadly,the violence is not a recent thing. They have been causing carnage everywhere they go.
Wolverhampton ‘61
Hampden ‘65
Newcastle ‘69
Barcelona ‘72
Old Trafford ‘74
Villa Park ‘76
Hampden ‘80
Osasuna ‘07
Manchester ‘08
Hampden’16
George Square ‘21
All of the above are the scenes of riots involving football, only one Club’s fans was involved in every single one… see if you can guess which
Two clubs actually: Rangers and Sevco!
Spot on Bill. I still remember the attack on the Celtic players in 1965 as they paraded the League Cup following the 2-1 win over Rangers, courtesy of 2 Big Yogi penalties.
Celtic’s first trophy win since 1957 and still the players had to run for their lives as the Rangers end launched their attack. Too much to see the green and white hoops celebrating.
Even in victory they manage to present a true image of who they are to the world.
I remember being in Barcelona on holiday a couple of years after the post match riot there when they lifted the European Cup Winners Cup in 1972.
Most of the large chapels had security guards on the door asking visitors where they came from.
This was a direct result of the forefathers of George Square 1 and 2 who thought that defecating and pissing all over another religions place of worship was the way to support your team.
There are those in the media who would leap at the chance to bring Celtic and their fans into the equation but throw the comparison between Seville v Manchester, Barcelona, Newcastle, Hampden, George Square, into the argument, that will shut them up.
Did we not win the Scottish Cup in 1965 before later winning the League Cup the same year?
It was after the riot in Wolverhampton that they became known as the huns, after the local newspaper likened them to Attila’s verminous army.
I’d almost forgotten that the attack by Rangers fans on the Celtic players parading the 1965 League Cup trophy resulted in the SFA banning laps of honour for 10 years thus denying the successful clubs in that era the chance to celebrate with their fans.
In effect all the other clubs paid the price of the behaviour of the Ibrox mob which was patently unfair.
In retrospect the SFA chose to lump all the fans together and punished their clubs for the behaviour of Rangers fans instead of targeting the offenders.
No surprise if the SFA and Police Scotland come up with a similar solution to the George Square riots.
And this is why we’ll never get entry to an all Britain set up or EPL or whatever.
I am acquainted with a policeman with many years service in the Met. He covered all types of domestic threats.
He said we’ll never get in because of the hun support. No town or city in England will tolerate the bother and expense involved in dealing with them or the clear-up of the aftermath.
It’s why DD and PL’s attempts to get us there are utterly futile. PL’s continual downgrading of Celtic to allow the huns to catch up is so infuriating. It is all in vain.
You forgot their second visit to Barcelona and their trip to Villa Real.
Riots and baton charges were the order of the day there too!
Last Saturday as i attended the SECC for my second jag as protection against the Covid virus ,unfortunately it coincided with a whole different kind of virus spreading its malignant way across the city. Although it is many years since i encountered them in person , deja vous instantly took me back to feel the same malevolent presence i had back in the 70,s.
As no buses or taxis could get into the centre , i headed for the main road hoping to get a taxi , nobody in their right mind would have driven into the area ,and as i became completely surrounded i headed back to the centre.
Everybody that crossed their path was abused ,regardless of age ,gender or anything else.
Including a really elderly couple ,the woman was distraught and her husband of fifty years plus was deeply concerned for her , while enraged at his own inability to do much to protect her. Her majesty,s constabulary were conspicuous by their absence. An English girl that had just come from the BBC studios , and was absolutely clueless about the scenario , as she was as to why she had been subjected to particularly vile attention . I found myself in the absurd position of telling her it was because her hair was dyed green.
I eventually got a cab an hour later , an Asian guy ,talking to him he had also been subject to their attentions. As we came through the town , Sauchiehall St etc onwards it was the same thing , this was no minority , it was collective venting of rage and discontent. I did get a boost from the taxi driver however ,he told me “they call me a Pak@ bstrd ” “and other Pak@ things , i just laugh because im from Kashmiri ” I told him as we both had a good laugh , im a Fenian bstrd and im from Glasgow. FFs somebody help them
Sorry to contradict you Phil but they need locking up before getting therapy. HH
Ian Archer said it so eloquently many years ago when he described their support: “A permanent embarrassment and an occasional disgrace.”
Not so occasional these days. If only there had been more Iain Archers back then maybe we wouldn’t still be plagued by this. I wonder if any serious action will be taken?