Late last night I was contacted by a couple who I have been friends with for several years.
They are the type of people that I would turn to if I was in a fix.
They’re decent, honest and kind.
The lady of the house is a regular churchgoer.
They had got in touch because she wanted to tell me her story.
She was attending mass at St Alphonsus Church in Glasgow.
Although she isn’t a parishioner she regularly attends mass there.
The lady in question was standing right beside Canon Tom White when the Orange Order parade passed by the church.
She was the classic eyewitness and could not have been any closer to the main victim of the hate crime.
As well as witnessing those events she told me that she was also subjected to a tirade of abuse, including a smorgasbord of misogynist expletives by several men.
To say that she was shocked and upset at what had happened on the steps of St Alphonsus Church would be to commit a serious understatement.
Yesterday afternoon she reported this hate crime to Police Scotland.
On the day of the incident, the press office of that organisation had stated that an assault “which we believe to be minor in nature” had taken place at St Alphonsus Church.
That is certainly not how this lady would have characterised what happened to Canon Tim White and to herself.
Witan a couple of hours she was contacted on the phone by a police officer.
I’m told that the member of Police Scotland on the other end of the line was polite and respectful to the lady.
However, there was one question that she found very perturbing after the conversation was over and this is the reason that they contacted me.
For the avoidance of doubt, I have written this piece with their permission.
Indeed, that is what they wanted me to do today.
What had made the lady so uncomfortable was when the police officer asked her the following question:
“When this was going on could the priest not just have gone back into the church?”
After the call ended she thought this was a very strange question to ask.
She put the following possible explanations:
Was this an off the cuff question by an individual police officer tasked with dealing with her complaint?
Or was he reading from a pre-prepared script?
She didn’t know and I couldn’t help her with that.
Then she put a question to me that I think all people of good authority in Scotland should address:
“Phil surely the overarching question is this. If Catholic churches have to be protected by police during these marches / processions, then why are they permitted to march?”
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I would like to know how loyal sons of William actually know that the river Boyne runs through Drogheda not Belfast or Derry how many attend there faith that they are trying to preserve I would say 1 in a Thousand bottom line is the ones that are educated are missfitts in society and need something to hang on to maybe they feel special and the rest are the dregs of society pond life bottom line the Catholics in Scotland need to stand up and be counted not when it suits abusing any man of the cloth and his parishioners is a terrible act of bigotry and for the peelers ah mean police sturgeon should have an inquiry if she wants an independent Scotland with equality she needs to take a real good look at the state of affairs in this island
It’s time to give them a big field out in the country where they can march around all day to their hearts content.
Certainly no place for it in modern society.
I remember many years ago leaving Inrox stadium after a Celtic v Dundee Utd cup final on a Sunday afternoon. After a few drinks in the stadium bar which wasn’t very receptive to our songs I decided to head into town to meet my wife. Unfortunately not being a regular in that part of town especially on a Sunday I never realised that the subway shur at 5pm. Embarked on the long walk down paisley road west towards city centre. I then came across the klan! About thirty with scarves covering their faces throwing bricks at buses etc. Luckily I was not wearing colours and decided to brave it out by walking right through the middle of them. Bit of spitting etc but played it like I never knew what they were talking about when referring to the football. Managed to get through unscathed. Just then a minibus of Celtic supporters drove slowly passed which took their attention as they rushed it punching and kicking it. They drove off but went round the block as 100yards down the road they turned back into the road and pulled over on the other side of the road. I crossed the road to advise them to get out of there. They couldn’t as one of their members was in the pub just up the road with his 14 yr old boy and they were surrounded by an angry mob inside. This was back in the mobile phone early days so I offered to phone the police. So on phoning the emergency services I was questioned on the incident and stated that a young boy and his dad were surrounded by Rangers supporters in a bar and that they were in trouble. The next question I received was “how do you know they are Rangers supporters”. To which I replied does it F’in matter they are laying into them! What a question eh!!
Does Show Racism The Red Card receive any public funding?
If so, why?
They are quick to jump on the bandwagon with the alleged racist abuse aimed at Logan at the end of the season match, abuse apparently only heard by the player himself.
The same player who effectively ended Tonev’s career at Celtic when he made the same accusation against him, again without anyone else to back up his claim.
Tonev was found guilty by an SFA kangaroo court on the basis of balance of probability!
What the feck does that mean? They would have been better off tossing a coin.
Let’s be clear. Logan is verbally abused by Celtic fans, not because of the colour of his skin, but because he is an absolute twat of the highest order.
Where are these warriors for racist justice and equality when the Ibrox choir, home and away, are in full voice?
Nowhere to be seen, or heard.
I think banning should be banned.
The $64.000 dollar question that nobody asks thems ‘what are they so afraid of’that they have to keep banging the drum in reality and metaphorically.is Catholicism a threat to their wellbeing?
I thought of a good way to protest these marches. Follow the marches with a lorry load of “baseball fans” armed with baseball bats and loudspeakers repeatedly playing the laughing policeman over and over. That would unnerve the B’strds 🙂
Why are they marching in Scotland? From which point to which point and indeed for what point?
These events should be banned in Scotland with immediate effect. They demonstrate incitement to hatred, create division and ultimately cost the taxpayer a lot of money – and for what? It’s pathetic!
Well where to start;
Dal-wake up.
Steven Marshall,100% correct,happened to me @CP?
JTD-sites working fine for me.tyvm Phil.
Bandito-I’m going back to use your link and sign that petition
Marshall Tito Gobbi-tounge firmly in cheek there.?
Alex-typical answer from the bigoted Police Scotland answer.
Debtor-get a grip,they’re barely upright.Deluded.
I showed my son,TLC(Totally Love Celtic?)of 15yrs old a video of what this is all about,marching season,he looked puzzled firstly and then he replied..
‘Dad they look ridiculous,in fact they’re morons dressed like that,looks more like Disney World,clowns.’
Now,my son doesn’t take much to do with football ,which initially I was saddened to hear.I’ve instilled in him to always think for himself and look at All the variables,then assess his next move.However,he knows how much it means to my family and therefore he shows willing mostly to appease,especially when we batter sevco,and that’s enough for me.Time flies when you’re enjoying yourself and 15yrs has been a blip to me.
My friends always ask where’s the Bhoy,I just say you’ll see him when We play the tribute act.Famiily is EVERYTHING TO ME.
I cannot put into words without using some extreme profanity and I will NOT sink to their level.
DISGUSTING,that’s it.
Phil,I’m nearly on top of my commitments and when completed I shall make a worthy donation,the sooner the better for me also.Your work astounds me at times,I hardly sleep,4\5 hours if I’m lucky,however,I’m beginning to think you don’t sleep at all;how you cram the hours on this site and the wordmines into one day beggars belief.
Power to your elbow,KEEP SHOUTING FAE THE ROOF TOPS.TAL?✅?????☮️
Just noticed the length of this comment,that’s twice I’ve indulged,or Phils let me;would be more accurate.Edit at your discretion Mr.Fear,but please allow it.
And,I won’t make a habit of it,promise.
This is the 21st century?……just checking…..
Yes it most certainly is.If you’re unsure,just check your sundial.
Dear Phil
I live overseas and sometimes the time delay means that your blog is delayed getting to my cerebrum by a day . That can cause annoyance to me as I love “hot off the press” .
Every cloud has a lining of silver and today I was so glad that you northen hemispherites were busily writing as I slept.
It gave me the opportunity of witnessing the intense voluminous response by your readers to the article.
Sometimes a “story”just gets people where it matters .
The lady and the priest, both innocents , trying their best and I imagine right now both praying for those who persecuted them .
Thankyou for coming forward and allowing your public humiliation to be published . Thankyou for not”going back inside” .
Like all good people, who offer no hatred in return , you have sent ripples through the waters of truth.
To you both. “ you good and faithful servants “ .
With thanks peter
There are many concerns about the OO. They invariably look uneducated, hate-filled and pitiful. But the most disturbing thing is when approaching a chapel, or specific pub, they’ll deliberately stop and do the slow drum ritual. Then suddenly it’ll be full guns blazing and the decibel level rises significantly. Obviously to antagonize anyone of a specific faith/team. How low can you get? The Glasgow Constabulary are naturally unwilling to challenge this debacle. Glasgow City Council are at best blase. Pathetic.
I’d go for “it’s something more sinister”. HH
Strange that it took our Glasgow Constabulary so long to define this as a ‘hate crime’. Either they are blithering idiots…or something more sinister.
Cast your mind back to the dallas coin throwing incident at celtic park.i was visited by two police detectives a few days after it happened.i sat in the jock stein stand at that time.they asked me questions about the incident which I was unable to help them with.i told them that myself and my friends had left the stadium with about 10 minutes to go and the other detective piped up with “what couldn’t you take the beating”.I was taken aback and politely asked them to leave.so I am not surprised in the least about the question put to the lady.
John F Kennedy was MEANT to take a different route.
Luckily I’ve not witnessed one of these hate vests for 30 years now due to living out of Scotland and pure damn luck whenever back visiting. I do remember the comical but slightly menacing sight of them in their ridiculous uniforms and the flanking guard of 4XL ‘Rainjuurz taps’ following on either side like some sort of semi-official henchmen.
I can only imagine how ridiculous they must look and sound in 2018. I am pretty sure if I had to witness it I would point and laugh.
I wonder what might happen if EVERYONE forced to witness these ‘parades’ did that in their hundreds and thousands. Somehow I don’t think they’d feel quite as proud of themselves.
On a more legal note and leaving aside the fact that I feel these marches should be banned altogether – the simple fact that they invariably seem to be deliberately planned with a route that ensures they will pass contentious , sensitive or other areas NOT aligned with their views can be seen as a deliberate incitement to cause offence at minimum and violence at worst.
Again… The fact it’s happening in 2018 is quite staggering.
40 years ago in Greenock mass in progress in well known town centre parish
Orange Walk appears and to be fair the music stops and there is a solitary Lambeg drum beat as they pass the church
The young curate stops the liturgy midstream( probably should have been excommunicated had his bishop found out) immediately asks the pass keepers to open all the doors wide the instructs the congregation to pick their hymnals and sing the full 7 or so verses of Faith of our Fathers. The liturgy only recommenced when the Lambeg drum was in the distance
That’s the way to do it!
Today he would be jailed for incitement.. but it was wonderful!
The silence, from the decent Scottish majority, is deafening.
Your politicians are almost as inept as ours in North of Ireland.
SHAME on them all. Time to begin rerouting these marches into places they are welcome…
Hell springs to mind…
Hell would not want them.
Was there any charges made, was the parade organisers reprimanded, did it make the news……..did the police request any cctv footage, camera snaps or witness statements from the hundreds of parisheners.
The answer is probably ‘no’that is further evidence as if any more was needed, that the hate driven trash on our streets carryout these actions with impunity under their perverse false sense of entitlement.
As the poor hun stated during the tv interview outside castle grey scull shortly after their national dismantling in 2012.
‘We thought we were establishment’
Kinda says it all, how would a gent with an iq of a clown fish sporting the same livery harbour such a dillusion, honestly it was genuinely a mobile phone sales pitch and not a subliminal message to mobilise the clown fish militia.
Ban them the country has had enough of their hatred let them March up and down in their orange halls till their feet blister.
Frank G just saved me a very long post. Sad that we can’t be certain of the officer’s intent.
With regards to this incident there are some serious questions that need answering, but like all matters orcgers I won’t hold my breath.
Several years ago when I was visiting my beloved home city of Glasgow I had cause to speak to a police officer and I first I wasn’t sure who I was talking too, the chaps in front of me where dressed top to toe in black and it made them seem unapproachable. They looked very menacing in their garb and I walked away thinking why are our police officers dressed like some sort of military force. Fast forward a couple of years and some idiot At holyrood decided that they would amalgamate all the forces in Scotland and rename them “ police Scotland “, even saying it sounds totalitarian. Every police force/ service I can think of starts with area first, metropolitan police, Kent police, nypd etc etc.
My point is this, they look like they are not approachable, they sound it and they sure as hell act like it. So why are we surprised when they think “ oh let’s reroute a orange walk away from a concert past a chapel”.
Has anyone experienced a complete wipe out of your comment when you are almost complete……
Racism and sectarianism are banned in Scotland.
People tend not to read the small print.When you look at bus or train timetables they give you exceptions.i.e. Sundays or holidays
Same as racism or sectarianism,only the small is embedded in the minds of most Scottish people.
The rules don’t apply to Catholics,Irish or Scottish,and anything connected to them.
Celtic players or staff are well reminded of this,and the media with the SFA are the guardian’s of this law
The Scottish legal system used this small print to deal with NL.This has been the norm in living memory,so why the surprise when we see another example.
These “peepul” have only recently slithered out of the primordial soup. It will be many millennia before they are able to rid themselves of their monobrowed sloping skulls and their knuckle dragging.
This behaviour towards Canon White is par for the course is it not?
Deflection by the oo is also not surprising as is the response from Polis Scotland.
How long is Scotland and the vast majority of our population be subject to the bullying, intimidation, sectarianism , triumphalistic entitlement of this rancid,vile entity.
As for Ms Sturgeon’s elimination of sectarianism, aye right Nicola.
Why don’t you ban ALL marches of this type?
OR
Find them a stadium where they can parade to their hearts content, and not disrupt the lives of the majority.
As an aetheist of 40+ years I have no interest in religions. But I do believe in the law and the right to lead your life without the rubbish of recent weeks.
A very thought provoking blog .Thank you.
Everyone should make a point of contacting Glasgow District Council directly. I certainly did. They need to be accountable for allowing hate induced parades pass through certain areas. Black Americans would naturally object to the KKK disturbing their place of worship. Very much like the OO-they hate everything.
Bit surprised at Police Scotland’s handling of this, to be honest.
I recently reported some sectarian grafitti near my home and was asked to log the incident to the police by the local council. The impression I got from both the officer who took the call and the one who followed it up was that the incident was being treated very seriously, given the nature of the language used in the grafitti, and also its timing, with it being so close to the marching season.
I was asked by both officers if I wanted to report it as a hate crime. It seems baffling that PS deem the daubing of sectarian slogans as more of a concern than the assault of clergyman outside his place of worship by an angry mob?
Agree that there’s nothing wrong with asking if Canon Tom could have gone inside. I imagine the answer was “No, there were hundreds of parishioners coming out”
There is a petition at http://www.change.org to get this archaic, demented, bigot driven hate rest off our streets.
Petition signed,Thanks for the link Bandito.
I wonder just about how many folk agree with the petition,but FAIL to sign it.Even though you provided the link to it???
Shameful that.
IF We moan about shit,DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT……
Failing that away and and behave like an ostrich,like serfcolite ring-pulls.
Moan the face aff ye n dae bugger AW,man up and as Peter Tosh wrote for The Right Honourable Boab Nesta Marley(CFC? Official Reggae Officer) and STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS.
An eminently fair question.
Could the priest not simply have gone back into the church, when initially challenged?
It’s almost as if he was asking to be assaulted. I’ll go further, he was luring – luring I tell you – these poor, Godfearing pillars of the Protestant community into a situation where they were pretty much *forced* by him to abuse him and spit repeatedly in his face – against their will. Reassuring to see our valiant police force – who bravely did nothing at all to apprehend anyone at the scene – suddenly so proactive in preparing a line of defence for the assailants.
I look forward to this sinister and meddlesome priest being brought to book by Police Scotland for the crime of incitement to riot. He must have known the tinderbox he was igniting, given the righteous passions of the Protestant Community. This is a deliberate and brazen act of Papist instigation, the undermining of the Bratish establishment and Crown by a flagrant and notorious IDOLATER. Too long have we stood by, while the brazen calf is fatted by the vile squirming worms of treasonous idolatry – we, the people, hav…
Oh wait – I’ve just realised… Noticing now that it’s actually the 9th of July, not the Middle Ages.
My mistake.
Meanwhile back in Scotland – there’s a painful irony in recalling that our country was one of the fountainheads of the European Enlightenment. Because as far as Glasgow’s concerned, the 18th century can’t come soon enough.
No member of the OO or the Masons will ever be arrested by the police in Scotland for violent or race crimes against RCs. Indeed I would not be at all surprised if the police compliment the vile bigot. One question is why did the police leave the Priest exposed? Was it deliberate? Were the police doing the usual ‘turn a blind eye if it affects Taigs’ routine that has been evident all my life in the West of Scotland. Their behaviour is a disgrace, and I have always believed they are hand picked for such events. It is a well-known fact that many in the police in Scotland are members of the OO and/or the Masons. In any other country in the world this would be stamped out. In Scotland it is glorified. Politicians are too frightened to do anything and these scum know they are free to act as they please. That includes Police Scotland.
I hope this was all caught on cctv and the scum dealt with appropriately. I would love to think the endpoint here is they get convicted, put away and there is some review of the marching nonsense so they are contained in a big park to demonstrate their traditions, lording it up amongst their ain kind. Battering 10 shades out of each other to end a good day.
And the officer from the North Lanarkshire town said to me
“Can you not crunch on your cornflakes a little harder and drown out the sound? … I think your just trying to waste police time here “
I come from a mixed faith family, Catholic Irish Grandmother and Scottish Protestant Grandfather. On this side of the family, my uncles where both in the Orange Order but never let that detract from visiting their Catholic nephew. One was ‘spotted’ attending my First Communion (didn’t enter the Church but was on Church grounds) and was subsequently asked to leave that fair and tolerant society.
That they claim to know nothing about the Church incident is deeply troubling as they are trying to sweep it under the Union Jack carpet.
The organisations who worked so hard to create this division in Scottish society should be called to account.
“Rangers” are currently trying to cash in on prejudice, with a orange football strip. This passes without comment from MSPs and “Nil by mouth”, the most useless organisation in history.
The Church of Scotland still has documents describing the Pope as the antichrist, having previously made a bland semi-apology for demonising Catholics, especially those of Irish extraction. Yet, this organisation is happy to sit back in silence when people claim Catholic schools are the source of prejudice.
There is no interest whatsoever in tackling this issue in Scotland. This is shown by the above information and the fact that the Police fell over themselves to describe the Barras incident as “minor” before an investigation had even taken place.
A big problem is that prejudice is all these ‘people’ have, so they are reluctant to give it up. They have nothing of their own to cherish or celebrate, beyond a tribute act football club and a “boy’s own” fetish for soldiers. Abusing others is all they know and its all they have to understand themselves by.
The reformation cut them off from their own roots, the bulk of Scotland’s history, and the bogus, cobbled-together identity brought in at that time has already fall apart. They are left with nothing and Scotland must reinvent itself for the second time in ~400 years: except, of course, for the Catholics who are the real Scots, having built the historical Scotland and, to this day, being the most diverse and dynamic Scottish community.
Nice of you to show that WATP types are not the only ones with a sense of exceptionalism.
Hi
Is it not about time that these type of marches were banned from the city centre . There are other areas throughout the city where they could have taken place. They can have their celebration just keep them away from the city centre to that I would add areas of housing estates where most people live .
The same old story in a Scotland if this was England or Wales There would be an outcry of This religious hate crime we are ment to accept it Nicola sturgeon should demand a meeting with the orange order and get a public appoligy ah wish They will actually find it funny .SNP will be losing my vote a thought they were the best of a bad bunch unionists labour are worse as for the police sectarian hate is the same as racism a bigot is a bigot ah know what a think should happen best keep my thoughts to myself ???????????
These knuckledragging c**ts should not be allowed to march.
#outdated
That constable’s remark reminds me of a very old joke…
Police Scotland were running a recruitment campaign at a Jobs Fair. The officer manning the podium notices a guy thoroughly studying the posters, placards, etc, so the officer approache’s the guy, who says to the officer, “I’ve half a mind to join the police force!”, to which the officer replied “that’s all you need, son!!”.
1) Why would the police describe the incident as “minor in nature” before even investigating it?
2) Suggesting the priest and parishioners should have gone back inside is victim blaming.
“News :- A man was shot on the doorstep of his home in #### today”
A police officer assigned to the case, upon realizing he was Catholic, asked “Could he not just have gone back inside”?
Perhaps time for the Archdiocese to demand a police officer to be in attendance at churches along the proposed routes of parades at the expense of the organisers?
Another question might be: does Police Scotland have surveillance footage of the “minor incident”?
I’m not in favour of banning such parades, but the organisers should bear the fully audited ENTIRE policing costs. Even if that could be recovered it could go some way to compensate for the loss of trade of businesses in the city on those occasions. Let them swagger along like dressed-up chimps as much as they like as long as they pay for their own wee party’s real costs.
I bet if it was an Iman and a mosque they would be locked up immediately.
Try it at the central mosque next year and see what happens.
Having been the only Tims in the village in a small mining community in west of Scotland we received behaviour like this on a regular basis. Police were rarely a help but one night stands out on the night of the glorious 12th a group of young scallywags decided for high jinks to jump on our car and do the bouncy on the bonnet and roof. Whilst singing the sash . There was much annoyance when I ran out to confront them and they had to get down at which point a knife was pointed at me. I retreated rather than face possibility of getting stabbed and waited on 999 police. After a few more choruses of fans favourites there knees being suitably soaked in blood the police did arrive. The scallys ran and statements were taken. When I suggested it was a hate crime due to sectarian nature the police officer said and I quote. Just kids messing with you it is a crime but I don’t understand why you think it’s sectarisn in nature it’s not a hate crime.
In these more enlightened times, the complainer/victim gets to decide if they perceive a crime as racially/religiously/sexually motivated – that is not the decision of the investigating Officer(s) and this is scrutinised by PSoS Crime Management per the Scottish Crime Recording Standard guidelines. Once the victim’s perception is clarified, the matter is then classified as a hate crime. Of course, in many circumstances, the interpretation of an incident as a hate crime is quite routine and further, to conform with SCRS guidelines, some incidents may be categorised as hate crimes even if the victim hasn’t perceived the crime as such themselves. Racially motivated crimes can be identified by eye-witnesses as such, even if the victim themselves has not perceived the crime to be racially motivated.
May I add that I take huge issue with the numbers of contributors who tar all Police with the same brush. This west central belt nonsense has nothing to do with the rest of PSoS who are as bemused and/or disgusted with this sectarian bile as the rest of civilised society.
Right …
Could John F Kennedy not simply have taken another route?
Could John Lennon not just have stayed in his hotel?
Could Dr Martin Luther King not just have stayed off the balcony?
Could Bobby Kennedy not just have stayed out of the kitchen?
John F Kennedy was MEANT to take a different route.
I had an uncle who was in the sheet metal business, a stone throw from Ibrox Park and I remember him saying he had got to know an ex-Rangers player who had became a salesman in that line of work. He was a right or left back as I recall but can’t remember his name. He told my uncle that after Hibs had won the the 71-72 Scottish League Cup final, defeating Celtic in the process, Rangers approached the then manager, the formidable Eddie Turnbull, who, on hearing the moderate terms, refused the offer. A shocked John Lawrence informed him that he was missing the opportunity to be the figurehead representing a certain section of the West of Scotland community. According to the ex-Ranger, Turnbull’s reply consisted of two words.
I guess SG has now accepted that mantle.
This is obviously hearsay but if true it highlights the the importance of Sevco to part of this society.
However it also begs the question as to why Heaven and Earth weren’t shifted to stop the original Rangers going to the wall.
Because they can just pretend that it never happened and they are still Rainjurz… Except without the 60 million in debts and 150 fleeced creditors.
The response and comment from police Scotland, while not one bit unexpected, still rankles and sticks in the gut. This supposedly non-sectarian , non-racist organization, like so often in the past, blatently
display their anti-Catholic and anti-Irish feelings on a daily basis. No other country in the civilized world would tolerate the shit they dish out to one section of the community they are paid to protect. Just like the RUC on the streets of Belfast , Derry and other areas in the north of our country , these scumbags do what they like with the blessing of their employers.
The bigot little country in the world needs to crawl into the 21st century , but I fear they have a long way to go.
I infer that the Victims of this barbaric Neanderthalic assault were actually guilty of incitement.
How these people think they can express their faith by standing in the environment of their place of worship is astonishing! All they did was provoke decent law abiding bigots into an expression of their deeply held faith. Roman Catholics ought to be more respectful in modern Scotland
Go inside, cover your ears if offended by the music, stand at the back of the bus, speak when you are spoken to…..
If Sturgeon is serious about cleansing Scotland of sectarianism then banning the annual bigot fest would be a major first step.
There is nothing cultural about celebrating a victory of a foreign army which was financed by the Vatican. How many of those partaking are aware of that?
Sectarianism and bigotry isn’t a product of faith schools it’s fostered in the home and passed down through the generations.
The organisation is anti Catholic in the extreme.
Would, say an anti Jewish organisation, be given free reign to walk through our streets belting out their favourite ditties?
Not a chance, and quite rightly so.
The only crumb of comfort that can be taken from the weekend is that only 4,500 partook in the walk with a similar estimated audience of followers.
I wonder if the call was recorded by police Scotland?
The recording would confirm if this was asked and also the tone and manner it was asked. From there police Scotland could then explain.
Any chance you could submit the question of FOI request phil?
Also makes you wonder why police Scotland thought the church needed protection in the first place. If there was a history of grief at this point surely the March/parade/bigotfest should have been banned from passing this place in the first place.
I wouldn’t think that there would be many SNP voters amongst those affiliated to and camp followers of the OO.
Therefore, the amount of political damage to the Nationalist party would be minimum if they had the will to “eradicate” the problem.
The reason for the question most likely is to
a) Apportion some of the blame on the victims
or more likely
b) look at a charge of inciting trouble and breach of the peace.
After all if you can be convicted of assaulting a burglar in your own home. Eh ….
Nowadays it is standard practice for the priest to stand outside the Church after mass and chat to his parishioners for 10 or 15 minutes. It happens the world over. Given the daily pressures they are under It is the only time the PPs get to communicate face to face .
There was no reason for the Canon to run away from (what John Hannah the Glasgow actor described on Twitter last night as ) medieval fuckwits.. it’s the last thing he and his congregation should have done
I suspect the police are trying to make light of it because they are embarrassed they took their eye off the ball and allowed some of the walk ‘hanger on’ human detritus to get to the priest
Well posted!
Veritas,
I think it’s a wee bit more sinister than just taking their eye off the ball.
By the question “could he not have gone back into the church?” I think they are alluding (in their eyes) to the fact that by staying outside he was responsible for the attack on him.
In fact by the time the MSM are finished with the story he’ll be getting totally blamed for inciting a riot!
Hear hear,well said,and you can bet your bottom dollar that is exactly what will happen.☮️✅
Hate crimes against Catholic’s has been swept under the carpet for as long as I can remember,
While I deplore all hate crime you hear about other hate crimes are on the rise such as islamaphobia as I say I deplore I’m affraid against Catholic’s which has the highest percentage will continue until the Archdiocese stands up against these despicable crimes against our peace loving religion…….
Anyone showering abuse at Muslims and their Imam standing outside a mosque would be arrested and probably receive a jail sentence.
Maybe you’re right Thai Tim , or maybe the media response would have been a bit more indignant and hysterical had the foul sectarian/ racist abuse occurred at a synagogue .
Such behaviour I believe is unacceptable by anyone .It’s unacceptable to subject any race , religion or culture to hate driven ,phlegm filled bile and hatred , unfortunately in some media circles there is a hierarchy of victims.
Neanderthals.
That’s all.
Phil canon Tom could not have made his way back into the Church as there were around 200 or so Mass-goers leaving at that time.
After every Mass he stands outside the Church to greet the Congregation. At St Mary’s it’s easier as there is an area in front of the Church before it meets Abercromby St. At St Alphonsus the Church door leads straight onto London Rd therefore it’s much more exposed.
The question your friend should have asked is “why should he have had to go back into the Church?”
KTF
It seems that nothing has changed in the dear lttle country where I grew fae “bhoy tae man”thank God I moved away to Canada almost 50 yrs ago, nae Orange walks here don’t need em & we don’t want’em tsay away with yir bigotted bile .
The last Canadian politician to be assassinated in office was an Irish Catholic, murdered because he was an Irish Catholic, on the steps of your parliament.
Although a fenian was executed for his murder the Orange Lodge were heavily implicated and much more likely culprits.
Sorry, but I beg to differ, in the summer of 1988, my friend and I were staying in the University of Toronto’s halls of residence, after just arriving, we were surprised to hear a lot of Scottish accents. When we enquired who and why, we found out that they were an Orange Order band invited over to Toronto to march. Needless to say, we gave them a wide berth for the rest of our stay.
Hmmm not sure there was anything wrong in the police question.
Going inside was the sensible option.
However people were leaving as the parade passed and the police had moved to an incident elsewhere so I expect the priest was looking after his own and leaving them not an option.
Bad timing has to be investigated and more control over such parades.
The Orange Order do not represent Christianity, though some know their God, however the hangers on are always out of control.
They are not my kind of people.
Debtor,
You say “going inside was the sensible option”.
So, the incident was the priests own fault, for his crime of being in a public place?
I don’t think that analysis cuts the mustard.
If, for example, a muslim or homosexual person was subject to similar abuse, I cant imagine that anyone would suggest that it would have been better and, indeed, “sensible” for them not to go out in public.
Lets not make excuses for the type of individual who attends such parades. In any case, the Police and media have that covered already.
He stood with his parishioners as they tried to go home through a gauntlet of the most odious, pernicious specimens of our species. We’re they all supposed to wait indoors while these rats eventually dispersed? I profoundly disagree with you!
Typo ‘were’.
It was the “hangers on” not the bands..
It was the “holding company” not the club that went bust…
It wasn’t rangers fans that rioted in manchester…
Amazing, its never the klans at fault!
HH
Having recently served on a jury where an assault was one of the charges, the question about “could you have gone back inside” was also asked of the defendant.
As a jury we were informed of the legalities of this course of action over another.
In this case, the defendant was claiming self-defence. And therefore the question was pertinent in that he wouldn’t have need to use self defence if he had simply gone inside and called the police.
Of course, Canon Tom did not engage in “self defence” thereby rendering the question null and void. But it was just a standard question. Or hinting at something more sinister i.e. Keep put of the way and it wouldn’t have happened.
I hope it was the former.
This kind of hateful behaviour occurs every year. I’ve stood and watched them spend 5 minutes banging their big drum outside my local Church but according to them this never happens. The plod never move them forward, they are there to protect the orangemen and not the victims of their hatred and we don’t need to wonder why. If the First Minister has the balls to ban these vile, anachronistic marches then she will have my vote forever. I doubt she will. HH
Phil, the question posed by the officer is not one that should have been asked and I, personally, would not have asked it. However I can state with a fair degree of confidence that it was not read from a script. This is not the first incident of this nature at this particular place of worship and unfortunately I doubt it will be the last. Unless of course the police, GCC and the Scottish government take some sort of permanent action. Have to say I doubt it.
I believe this should be spread and put to Police Scotland on twitter. These disgusting bigot fests must end!
The lady is on the button, Phil. How long will this be permitted in my native land? It has been encouraged and allowed for years and years. I don’t see the Scottish government doing anything about this disgrace any time soon. Too many vested interests around. Shame on them all.
Thankfully Phil, this kind of incident will soon be a thing of the past.
Nicola Sturgeon is going to eradicate “sectarianism ” from Scotland.
Phew! Thank goodness for that. About time I say.
My point on the first report of this incident was if a police guard was deemed necessary why was it allowed in the first place?
Interesting and troubling piece. As I said yesterday, some serious growing up needs to be done by a significant number of people and by the authorities.
And I don’t mean the Catholic Church or the people attending it on Saturday…
https://theclumpany.wordpress.com/2018/07/08/whats-the-problem-with-roman-catholicism/
Maybe we should all stay indoors, on our own, avoiding all contact with others.
Hear hear, Tommy…..I jest…..unfortunately, they believe that’s what those of Irish heritage and of the Roman Catholic religion should do ! HH