I haven’t spoken to any supporter of any of the clubs involved that want titles or cups handed to them retrospectively.
However, all of them today said that they wanted those titles stripped from Rangers (1872)!
If that doesn’t happen then the people, who govern the game are stating that what happened was Ok.
For the avoidance of doubt, it wasn’t.
It was financial doping on an industrial scale.
If the game is to be saved in Scotland, then the word “Rangers” must be replaced with one of these “*”.
The symbol will represent an indelible stain on the character of the dead club.
In years to come people will ask why an “*” is there instead of the name of a team.
Then the explanation will have to be given.
The curious person will then be informed that in the year in question the trophy was won by a club that used illegal means to gain a sporting advantage.
In other words, they cheated.
When this was discovered the titles were stripped from them and the record amended with a simple asterisk.
Now read this statement from the Scottish Football Association that was issued today and try and work out how this says that cheating is wrong.
Scottish FA statement on Supreme Court ruling
Wednesday, 05 July 2017
The Board of the Scottish FA notes the judgment of the Supreme Court and wishes to clarify the implications of this final legal decision from a football regulatory perspective.
In light of the Inner House of the Court of Session decision, the Board of the Scottish FA sought external senior counsel opinion to ensure a robust and independent consideration of all implications of today’s judgment.
The Board received written advice from Senior Counsel, amplified when the QC attended a full meeting of the Board to discuss his conclusions.
Specifically, Senior Counsel was asked to anticipate whether a determination in favour of HMRC, as announced today, could imply that there had been a breach of the Scottish FA’s Disciplinary Rules as they applied at the time of the EBT payments.
The clear opinion of Senior Counsel is that there is a very limited chance of the Scottish FA succeeding in relation to any complaint regarding this matter and that, even if successful, any sanctions available to a Judicial Panel would also be limited in their scope.
Accordingly, having had time to consider the opinion from Senior Counsel, and having examined the judgment of the UK Supreme Court, the Board has determined that no further disciplinary action should be taken by the Scottish FA at this time.
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I’d be more interested in the return and redistribution of ill-won prize money.
The Rangers are stll insisting they are the same club well if they want to continue being the same club HMRC should go after the monies owed then we will see if they still want to be the same club. It’s my opion that they would drop this lie like a hot potatoe. Let them keep their title but with the asterix to denote cheating
I am an Ayr fan. I watched the 2002 League Cup Final where my team played nine cheats with EBTs, out of the starting eleven. I paid good money in good faith to watch my team cheated. The SFA has done nothing for the governance of Scottish football. They are a disgrace to the Beautiful Game. Now is the opportunity to get rid of these sycophants. Every supporter of every team must write to their own team, the SFA and their MP stating that this situation is not good enough and cheats must not prevail. We did it when Sevco were being fixed to enter the SPL, then division one. We must galvanise and do it again. If we all do nothing, this cheating of us all will continue ad infanitum.
Ayr United won that day 3-0 – ask for the trophy for a week – Celtic have it and will happily give to any team that won it in their history!
One team (Celtic) did not remove Rangers from SPL – it was majority vote!
rangers fans saying its just celtic wanting trophies….
Calm down. The implications of the appeal have first to be fully digested.
The first result of a legal case against SFA would be that the old entity is dead and buried end of.
The danger as far as SFA is concerned is legal proceedings by myriad of groups, players, clubs, associated businesses etc too recoup revenue they have been cheated out of.
Too not strip titles is to disagree and to reject the Supreme Court decision, thin ice or what!
Those bastards at the SFA are still trying to cheat us out our now legally won titles.
They haven’t learned from the courts.
We’ve heard from the SFA, we’ve heard from Celtic, let’s hear from the SPFL and from the Players Union to get their opinion.
The titles are legally Celtic’s as of today and everyone knows it. Except perhaps a Rangers supporting Freemason QC at the SFA.
Fergus McCann took the SFA to court and won. Charles Green took the SFA to court and won. Anyone can take the SFA to court over these titles and will win.
A carefully worded, not to say deliberately verbose, statement. It says, in plain English, we asked our lawyer a specific question [not stated] about whether this ruling showed a breach in the Disciplinary Rules. Their specific answer [not stated] was, I guess, ‘yes’ but for some reason [not stated] if the SFA pursued the complaint then they would lose and if they won there was only limited [limits not stated] sanction.
I’m reading this trying hard to see what they are NOT telling me, because it reads like obfuscation rather than clear explanation. Or am i being harsh?
No, you`re not. Actually, you`re spot on.
I agree. 100% correct. Well written, sir. HH
Having looked at Hearts, Hibs and Aberdeen fans’ forums there is a definite appetite for the SFA and SPFL to strip honours from Rangers during the EBT years . They are equally disgusted as Celtic fans so maybe there is a groundswell beginning .
Brendan Rogers here for 17 in a row….?
Haven’t Rangers been playing with 5 asterisks on their badge for years already.
Time to pull out the Scottish cup..and shame the most bigoted organisation in sport ..we don’t need the Scottish cup ..green brigade step up..the board won’t
I spend too much time reading bigot forums. Currently I am amused to see the same knuckle draggers who oppose title stripping in Scotland suggesting that Progres Niederkorn should be kicked out of Europe for fielding an ineligible player.
Fans won’t have a big say in this, the season ticket monies are in, the clubs don’t give a monkeys what their fans want, it’ll be another year till they need your money again and are probably hoping it’ll have blown over by then. The only reason the huns were made to start in the 4th Division was because of fan power, which came BEFORE season ticket money was due, the threat of withholding was what brought the Arab spring, it won’t happen like that again unless fans get organised for spring next year. I may be an old cynic but shamefully I see the huns getting off Scott free whilst Lawwell gets to try on his new UEFA blazer.
Celtic are insisting on a title stripping enquiry.
One of the saddest things about this Phil, one of the most decent honest human beings you could ever care to meet was robbed of what was rightfully his , the late great Tommy Burns , a first class footballer and manager , rest well Tommy ??
100% agree.
As a manager, Tommy’s teams included great players and played beautiful football.
Forever a legend but denied glory by those cheats.
So true i was at every game that year we played great football the draws cost us and of coarse the cheating. How any right minded person can justify these “HONOURS” being kept when there is no honour among thieves is just crazy this was and is the biggest story in British football that should be any sport journalists wet dream and its been white washed fir decades. Cheats must be punished even though they dont exist any more the record books must show what they did they knew exactly what they where doing, for the sake of our game it has to be sorted without sporting integrity what really is the point surely everybody must want that or just give up on football and watch WWW. It’s bad enough honest folk lost money and that they hid paperwork bent every rule in the book as Hampden looked the other way it happened it’s proved so for god sake and the good of our game take action this is a no brainer anywhere else in the world
The SFA are crapping themselves that this clearly raises the new club old club legal case.
Which it should.
Only one of 80 players who should have an SPL winners medal but does not should take them to court for his medal. He would win.
They should all do it… class action style.
Their players union should support them before tax avoiding player crooks.
Why walk out on 47 mins? Why not boycott the games and hit the clubs where it hurts. Only that will focus the minds of Boards of others into taking action.
Season ticket holders ?
I disagree with your asterisk suggestion.
Rangers (1872) wins in this situation.
They win by denying the opposition their rightful trophies.
This concept is very important. They cannot cheat but still succeed in denying their closest opposition rightful victory. All sports all over the world know this principle.
Full justice must be done. The titles quite simply MUST be awarded to those who came second to the cheats.
What? No thanks. I don’t want a single one ‘conferred’ on Celtic and I don’t know a single person who does. Asterisk or bust.
Here, here.
Steve Nicol on ESPN is stating that Scottish Football is going down the drain because R**** didn’t get past Progres. Scottish Football went down the drain when the SFA sold their soul to have any kind of Ibrox entity in football. Now presented with the chance to make amends they are looking to balk. Shows what they think the worth of Scottish football really is.
I prefer Name of Winner with an * that way correct champion is shown their name removed and * tells why/how it was awarded
I really don’t understand why you want this about them. Let their name as well as their club die.
Celtic won the title fair and square there no need for an explanation why their name is there
Old Rangers won 5 or 6 Scottish cups duing their cheating years, and the SFA doesn’t think there should be any further action at this time. What action was there in the first place? was that the £250,000 from the LNS spoof enquiry. other than that can’t think of any other punishment. as for the 5 or 6 SC wins which we all know to be SFA end of season show piece then the SFA have a decision to make about those wins. (at this time)
The SFA are trying to wangle thier way out of this but I think fans will have a big say in what happens. And well done Celtic for asking for a review of the matter.
Sevco didn’t pay £250k.
Here’s one that wants the titles given to the rightful winners and here’s why.
1. They still beat us !!!
Yeah by cheating and every player with a side letter knew that this was possibly the case. They thought they had there arse covered financially and thats all they cared about. Not the cheating or the fact they shouldn’t have been there. Players are well advised and are individually responsible for cheating.
2. They are tainted !!!!!
What ??? Are you kidding ? They are tainted with the Rangers name on them yes. But Celtics ??? If anyone can argue why Celtics name would taint them then I’ll change my mind.
3. Leave them blank or an asterisk !!!
Blank, asterisk why ????
Just Celtic FC with no reference or asterisk to the cheats at all Celtic won them end of simple. The only thing that can remain denied in history is the money and the parties.
Any fan or club that allows these titles to be left blank actually gives way to the cheats and the fact that other clubs and fans competed and supported fairly. The episode then remains about RFC (IL)
Don’t be so weak !!!!
Celtic were not Second placed for all of them, so Why do you think they should be awarded to Celtic?
Yes they were. Ruling only applies from 2000/20001 season going forward. Supposing it covered the 1990’s would only go back as far as 1997/1998 season. Personally I don’t wish them awarded to Celtic or any other club. Asterisk is fine with myself. HH
Well you did say yesterday keep an eye out for the good news stories after lastnight. They really don’t care how they were won, lying and cheating on an industrial scale it makes no difference to the Sevco fans. Every other clubs fans in the world would be totally embarrassed. But not the heard of learing.
Can fans / clubs mount a legal challenge to this – seems like crowd funding would be able to get the cash together
The SFA and SPFL do not have a chance in hell of defending the titles for RFC 1872. In addition TRFC will be adjudged to be another club.
If they’re smart they’ll give up the titles and not risk the same club lie.
The SFA were negligent in running the game. The SFA are trying to defend their negligent position. RFC should never have been allowed to do what they did. Campbell Ogilvie knew as SFA President. Get him under oath.
“If they’re smart” – that, in football parlance, is a BIG ask!
Someone with legal knowhow could easily set up a class action law suit against Rangers, the SFA or SFL/SPFL. It could be crowdfunded.
Class action lawsuits have been undertaken against he companies – Insurance, Ticketmaster, etc – which have cheated or colluded to cheat customers of their money with illegal pricing and charges.
Go after Rangers (oldco) and name current shareholders who were in place at the same.
Leave them little wriggle room to deflect blame.
I would recommend every Scottish supporter who is disgusted with our football authorities join the Scottish Football Supporters Association (SFSA). Through the association we can hold them to account.
Maybe other clubs have things in closets that they don’t want investigated hence their silence
When it came to accommodating Newco, SFA and SFL’s rulebooks gave them infinite creative discretion.
Now dealing with Oldco criminal tax evasion they are “limiting”.
Or so they think – wait until the sponsors and TV companies get on the phone when every match experiences a 47th minute walk-out live on a TV near you – with highlights on YouTube.
47th walkout for £47m of tax evasion cheating.
The revolution WILL be televised – globally.
There is no asterisk when Carl Lewis won the Olympic gold medal.
Ben Johnson cheated and was disqualified. Carl lewis would have won if Johnson hadn’t cheated. Carl Lewis won fair and square.
Rangers cheated and will be disqualified. Celtic would have won if rangers hadn’t cheated. celtic won these titles fair and square.
When you cheat cheat in sports you get disqualified. Sporting advantage is not a consideration.
We have won every title since 2000/01.
A fair and just punishment for rangers and David Murray would be the removal of all trophies won by rangers under David Murray.
Carl Lewis won fair and square? did I read that right?
Pat, i’m lead to believe Mr Lewis was the biggest drug cheat at that time and possibly ever. Michael Johnson’s called him out loads of times. His silence on the matter is damning……
Carl was on drugs as well then and later. Ditto in particular most of Us track team of the Era including the women.
That said Ben got caught he was guilty the others werent caught and were per rule awarded the medals – not having been convicted they were not guilty
Gerard: Don’t go there.
Carl Lewis cheated and the USOC covered up for him. The IOC wasn’t brave enough to go after the USIOC.
I would urge anyone who attended any and all of the affected matches (and can afford to or otherwise obtain Legal Action) to sue the SPFL/SPL for all expenses undertaken in purchasing the tainted product.
As I remember David Murray’s counsel told him EBTs were legal – look how that worked out.
Counsel offer opinions on matters of law for money. The clients must decide on moral and commercial judgements.
A regulator hiding behind Counsel opinion is really the lowest of the low – even by Scottish football’s Scotlan’s sad standards.
Regan, FFS man stand up and show some dignity and some remorse for your many failings.
Looks like SFA are trying AGAIN to weasel their way out of doing anything that would upset their pal and tax cheat Mr king
What a complete crock of ****.
The SFA should hang their heads in shame ,everyone knows the EBTs were a sham and the titles (I won’t call them honours ) were won by deception and illegal means .
If the SFA do not have the orbs to do the right thing then they should be run out of town and get someone willing to put the laughing stock of an association on an HONEST track .
The word “Rangers” must remain in italics with a bold asterisk next to it so that people know who cheated millions of football fans over the Asterisk Years. Their name should not be scrubbed from the annals of history, it needs to remain as a reminder to those who would cheat and financially dope.
(H)Unsurprisingly the SFA have pulled a Pontius Pilot and washed their hands in the Loving Cup already.
“Nothing to see here, Timmy”
This should now gain some momentum from other clubs’ fans now too.
The SFA should not seeks to punish, fine, or ban anyone. Medals should not be taken from players, it isn’t their fault. Quite simply, the former club is stripped of the offending titles with a big asterisk next to them. Who can actually argue that? Oh but wait “most successful club in the world” is suddenly erased… like the debts of the 237 creditors were. Funny old game, yet only the guilty are laughing!!
The best squirrel the Fat Contoller has to distract from the EBT judgement is to focus on the worst Euro trashing of any British club ever – karma can be a cruel, capricious l bitch.
Is this the same Senior Counsel who couldn’t define “relegation” in terms of their own rulebook in the Coral / Kinloch case?
We don’t need no stinkin opinion from Senior Counsel.
We need due process.
Lance Armstrong, Floyd Landis, Marion Jones, Ben Johnson, Glasgow Rangers. Ask Russian atheles if it was all dealt with long ago and everyone should just move on.
And while you’re at it, how exactly did oldco titles end up at newco.
Same club, same titles, pretty much same name, same ground, same strip, same directors, same bigotry, different debt – how very convenient.
It’s tiume for some justive in Scottish football – maybe they can import it from abroad because the local stuff tastes like shite.
And the corruption goes on and on,
Celtic Aberdeen, Hearts ,Hibs, and all other senior club’s board’s of directors must now step up to the mark ,and get shot of these people who are destroying any creditability that scottish football has left the supreme Court has giving the verdict Rangers cheated and knew what they were doing as did the
S.F.A
Funny how you don’t hear the cry “Who is this Senior Counsel? He should be named”.
Glad to say we don’t have the mob mentality that the supporters of both Ibrox clubs have/had. Or the management that would stir up a frenzy.
Ooch we know fine who Senior Counsel is!!!
Whatever the legal professon would have you believe to the contrary: “he who pays the piper calls the tune”.
Within reason, senior counsel will give those instructing them the opinion they wish to hear.
There is also the obvious fact that ‘opinions’ are just what they say on the tin. I don’t wish to disrespect the recently departed, but the late Kenneth Mure QC had a very benign opinion of the tax matters of Rangers FC. An opinion that has been shown to be at odds with almost every one of his senior counsel colleagues.
So to paraphrase a certain chubby chap “who are these people?” let us know the name of the ‘Senior Counsel’ referred to in the SFA statement.
In fact let us see counsel’s opinion given to the SFA so that we can examine the reasoning behind it and while we are at it let us see the terms of reference given to ‘Senior Counsel’ by the SFA.
Time for the fans of most clubs to get together and use the law. Nothing else will move this corrupt administration. The clubs will do nothing which I do not understand. They lost out financially. Yes will got a sort of statement form Celtic today but that is already negated by the SFA statement. These arrogant blazers will sit this out as they always do, when not warming balls, so to speak.
I’m assuming the QC wasn’t Donald…!!!
Is that not the the same Scottish FA board that help D Murry and rangers cheet in the first place.Sack every 1 of them
The thoughts of a Senior Counsel are just that…an opinion…a best guess….
They count for nothing in the real world.
The SFA has chosen a tame QC to offer a view that supports the outcome they want….and every body does the same to disuade their opponents to offer a legal challenge.
This is Regan huffing and puffing to blow down the house of real football fans.
He should not be given that opportunity…again!
The EBT’s were originally deemed as legal and available to all- now they are deemed as tax avoidance and illegal- and these fuds insult our intelligence by saying nothing has changed..
Well there it is. We go to Judicial Review against the sfa.
Their advice from their employed QC, who gives them an opinion they want, and pay for, is worthless.
They’re batting down the hatches and brazening it out.
Criticism should be ruthless from all right minded quarters.
If I remember correctly, Phil, the SFA did similar in the run up to LNS, stating they would be acting as the appeal body, leaving it to the SPL to take responsibility for what turned into a whitewash. I think the legal advice this time round was just seeking a suitable way (from their point of view) to word the statement.
Who can they discipline oldco are dead.
Stripping titles is the only act of integrity left.
My god these people rely do live up their own arses.
All clubs affected should Sue the SFA IF THEY DONT ACT APPROPRIATELY.
Mass walk out at 47th minute to mark £47m of tax cheating – at the first fixture of the season – every division – and if nothing changes – repeat at the second fixture – the sponsors will love that global publicity as the images flood youtube.
Simple fan power – large scale peaceful protest – “we want our game to be a sport” – shame the corrupt money-grabbers out of Scottish football !!!
Fan power will be key to any meaningful action and change. It must be co-ordinated and sustained and highly visible at all grounds. This will involve banners,chants,boycotting of Scotland games and importantly dialogue and organising between fan groups. There’s time to get organised. If the authorities wont act voluntarily and correctly for the greater good of the Scottish game then co-ordinated fan power will shame them.
Am I reading this right, no sanctions are to be made, title stripping etc surely this can’t be allowed, surely people power, or clubs must act, seems governing bodys are riding roughshod
The game is bigger than a couple if self serving blokes in suits
The titles must be stripped from rangers and the suits from the SFS.