I was saddened to read this piece in the Irish Voice.
Mhairi Black MP is highly regarded in Scottish political circles.
She is young, working class and openly gay
In a watering hole for Old Etonians, she stands out.
Her spirited speeches in Westminster are well received by many, as she holds the bloated bourgeoisie of the Tory Party to account for their cruel austerity policies.
Therefore, I was disappointed to see a quote attributed to her where she indulged in modern Scotland’s oldest and most socially acceptable hatred.
My views on anti-Irish racism in Fair Caledonia are not a secret.
Five years ago I wrote a book on the subject:
“Minority Reporter. Modern Scotland’s bad attitude towards her own Irish”.
Ironically in that book, I used the analogy of the journey of LGBT community and their long march to equality in Scotland.
There was a time, thankfully gone, when LGBT people had to conceal who they truly were because of the prejudicial attitudes of society.
My thesis was that a mature society is one that is comfortable with difference and diversity.
Several years before I wrote Minority Reporter was asked to give a lecture at the Changin Scotland conference in Ullapool.
My talk was about my personal experiences growing up in Scotland and what I encountered when I had attempted to express an Irish identity.
The audience was an eclectic audience of SNP activists Labourites and local folk.
I stated that for my generation born in the 1950s, expressing a second generation Irish identity (2GI) in Scotland had been problematic.
The comparison with the Irish community in the USA was stark.
Moreover, it was also different to the experience of the Italian community in Scotland who appeared to me to have been afforded a cultural space that had been denied to the Irish.
“One Scotland many cultures” is a great marketing slogan.
However, Ms Black’s attitudes prove that there is still a way to travel before Scotland’s oldest ethnic minority is respected and valued.
If the Paisley MP had thrown such a jibe in the direction of any other community then it would have been a resigning issue.
However, by targeting the Irish in Scotland she is on safe ground in fair Caledonia.
Perhaps the honourable member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South would care to read this piece of mine in the Guardian.
I’m glad that my brood has not grown up in a country where an elected politician can throw out this racism with impunity.
Black is just an identity politics candidate, selected chiefly due to her homosexuality so the SNP could show how progressive and “right on” they are.
In this she was the counterpart to the Tories Ruth Davidson and Labours Kezia Dugdale, who were also both identity politics candidates.
Davidson indeed was chosen as a means of completely re-branding the Scottish Tories. The appeal of the “aul’ Kirk” image of her stuffy predecessor, Annabel Goldie, has outlived its shelf-life, as has the Church of Scotland which they both adhere to and will shortly pass into history (but not before, Ruth hopes, allowing her a wedding ceremony).
Davidson’s ascension to Holyrood party leader with just ~4 months experience as an MSP betrays the contrived nature of Holyrood politics.
However, whereas Davidson has proven reasonably competent, Dugdale was a disaster for Labour. All Davidson really had to do was sit on her hands while Labour imploded under the clearly incompetent Dudgale.
Most recently Kezia was seen abandoning her “day job”and constituents to go off chasing celebrity (and money) on reality TV. Yet she escaped censure for this dereliction of duty because her homosexuality is considered so important to Labour. After all, the Tories have a gay, so they must have one too. Such is the depth of political strategy in Holyrood.
As for Black, her conduct on social media has shown her up for what she is – a Paisley ned. She reminds me of Frank McAvennie, resembling a female version of him. The head held at a jaunty angle, the googly eyes, the jaw hanging open. The “Wheres the birds?” catchphrase still works too.
Dugdale and Black both highlight the danger in choosing candidates based on identity politics, rather than on competence and experience.
Davidson has managed to avoid controversy personally, but on at least two occasions her close associates have been caught expressing anti-Catholic sentiment. I doubt a party leader would survive repeated occasions of their close associates expressing anti-gay sentiment.
phil
Don’t know why you even bother to reply to the nonsense I have read on here.
See you soon my friend.
Some folk may call themselves catholic ? But are the really do they go to church and practice there faith.
Black was anti Irish end of no excuse!!
She’s an Idiot with a paid for degree like most.
You Earthlings are very strange.
We don’t have this nonsense on Planet Zog.
Where did she ‘target the Irish in Scotland’!? She had a go at a group of people who fell for some Daily Record trolling and had a go at her without bothering to check what actually happened. My mate e-mailed her after it and she met him and 7 of his cafe’s customers to explain herself – and picked up 8 votes into the bargain. The term ‘plastic paddy’ (which she didn’t actually use) was reputedly invented by well to do Irish emigrants to London in the 80s. I hear it used by Irish people in Dublin (along with another phrase ‘Guinness republican) all the time. I’m not saying I necessarily agree with this usage (although there are times I can see why they’re used) but to brand Ms Black as anti-Irish because she used it is incredibly naive not to mention irresponsible
‘I was saddened to read this piece in the Irish Voice’. Then don’t read the Irish Voice. It is a paper whose purpose is to discourage integration by promoting the ‘plastic paddy’ identity.
All Nationalism is divisive.
… Because ? Because you say so ?
Yes. I was appalled by the Norwegian nationalism on display in the early 1940s.
She is a catholic and was educated at a catholic secondary in Glasgow.
She has (I believe) a tendency to engage mouth before brain a few weeks ago she gave an interview basically telling N. Sturgeon how to improve links with the WestminsterSNP.
A case of too much attention too young leading to a grand conceit of herself I think yes but bigot no.
The remark was probably a dig at those people who had previously taken issue with her anti Celtic history and shows an immaturity on her part a bit of tit for tat.
Too be clear though the remark was racist and offensive and she should apologise or face sanctions from the SNP
She has previous.
Reading through some of the comments on here I must have missed the full moon . I have no idea if the term plastic paddy or Irishman is racist but if people of Irish extraction believe it to be so best not to use it unless you are out to cause offense. Using the comments of one MP to tar the entire SNP is just plain bonkers .
Evening old bhoy, trust you are well!
Phil,
There’s a well worn phrase that we should choose out battles. This current thread is a distraction from the bigger picture and not really worthy of your time and energy.
All too often on social media we see people being offended largely because they want to be offended. It suits their status as a victim and allows them to vent their spleen in the guise of righteous indignation. They also have way too much time on their hands than they know what to with.
I don’t even consider myself a Christian, never mind a Catholic, but I do recall that cornerstone of Christianity that “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone’. We’ve all used phrases to describe other tribes or sung songs that we’re probably not proud of. Give the girl the benefit of the doubt.
The term “plastic Paddy’ like “professional Scouser’ is really just a bit of banter. Sadly the pendulum of political correctness has swung to the right and is robbing us of our sense of humour. Our ability to laugh at ourselves allows us to rise above being offended by an off hand remark by a naive teenager.
Keep up the good work Phil and let’s concentrate on the skullduggery at the top of the marble staircase.
Hail and Hail again !
You say “plastic paddy” is just banter, but try to portray “plastic paki” as banter and see how far you get.
Has anyone commenting on this ever made any effort to meet her and ask the question re. the Previous anti-Celtic comments?
I have, and was satisfied that her explanation/side of the story was, and continues to be, distorted deliberately by vested SMSM and Labour Party interests seeking to drive a wedge between the Celtic-Irish- RC community and SNP.
Suggest a wee bit more investigation and less morale panic.
There is undoubtedly anti-Irish behaviour in Scotland and in the SNP but not from Mhairi Black.
Sad to see a drop in standards on an otherwise excellent site.
Ms black like judus Johnston she is one of their own.
I’m afraid you lost me at “highly regarded”.
In this day and age, you don’t have to say much to be called a racist or a homophobe, indeed just have a different view from those left wing so called liberals, loons who try to force you to change your mind to their way of thinking and if they can’t do that then they want you to be quiet, there is nothing wrong with being against homosexual marriage and believing in the sanctity of marriage as being between one man and one woman, and if you dont want to live in a so called multi cultural society with al the problems that brings, then thats fine , dont let the lefty university academics who want to rule your life from cradle to grave shut you up, free speech and free thought are, time for us all,to say enough is enough, instead of being scared to say what we really think.
HAIL HAIL
FOR CELTIC AND IRELAND
If I had the misfortune to bump into Ms Black at Firhill on matchday and she called me a plastic paddy would I be within my rights to speak to plod tell him how offended I was and have her charged under her party’s reprehensible OBFA act ?
Just a thought.
I find Black to be a complete mess of a person!
Why ? hope your not discriminating in anyway.”justified discrimination”. Surely not on here.It would be moderated.
I am also saddened by the general lack of awareness about racism in all its forms. I was, however, heartened by Celtic players wearing black armbands and the minute’s applause for Cyrille Regis yesterday. We shall overcome some day.
She is a work shy carpetbagger. She jumped on the gravy train when Brigadoon was imminent, alas her constituents are stuck with her until the next election.
Where is the racism?
I’m Scottish, but if raised in Ireland, having an Irish accent and because I sounded Irish a coloured person called me an Irish bastard is that racist?
No.
My passport would say I’m British, I may identify ethnically with Scotland…..or Ireland.
Racially I’m Caucasian.
Now, if he’d called me a white bastard…..
Ms Black is not working class she is university educated and her parents are teachers. She is in fact a middle class catholic so let’s leave the SNP anti catholic nonsense aside. The Scottish Labour Party has a clear history of members and politicians who were clearly and openly anti catholic. Ms Blacks problem is that she is an opinionated mouth who fails to engage her brain before she speaks. In context her nasty comment is a tit for tat to the people who highlighted her earlier comments on Celtic.
She displays a lack of maturity which in my opinion renders her unfit to represent either the country or the SNP in the farce that is the British Parliament
As someone who might be entitled to be offended by the, injudicious, term that Mhairi Black used – I have to say that I am not. I see it in the context of a very young, principled, intelligent politician who is still learning and ought to be supported and given the benefit of the doubt here.
She wasn’t slandering the Irish, she was having a cheap jibe at people who wish they were. I have relatives and friends who have ostentatiously applied for Irish passports in the wake of the Brexit ref. (I considered it myself!) I’ve come to the conclusion that I am what I am, irrespective of whether my passport’s green, red or blue. Despite being exhorted to think I was Irish whilst growing up, I’m not. I’m Scottish. I’m easy with that but not outwardly proud of it. I don’t mind others who eulogise their Irish heritage, but they shouldn’t be too sensitive about others who view the desire to be what they’re not as a bit silly.
I’d focus your ire on people with real malevolent intent. Mhairi is not, in my view, a bigot.
“…she was having a cheap jibe at people who wish they were…”
And there is the racism right there.
If you can’t see that then you’re part of the problem.
You have a right to self-define your identity.
You don’t have a right to deny that right to others.
Phil,
Nobody is denying anybody the ‘right’ of self-identifying their identity, as far as I can see.
Supposedly use of the term Jafakin would also make one a racist?
I don’t consider myself a racist and stand resolutely against it. I also do my best to stand with people being unjustifiably smeared with such a charge. The treatment of yourself by SRTRC recently was quite ridiculous and should hopefully caution you against condemning others without justification.
As A Irish citizen I feel I have the right to say something on this
You Phil , good guy that you are, are as you rightly say you are, and correct me if I am wrong, are Irish born in Baillieston or was it Bellshill, Scotland, whatever, your parents were Irish of a long Irish background, going back centuries, no doubt, therefore you have the right to be, as I myself have , to call my self Irish, your statement in your reply that , and I quote, “You have the right to self-define your identity ” is wrong and makes a mockery of what a identity is and where you are from, I myself who was born in England and lived in Scotland for most of my life got a DNA test done which showed were I was from, namely the North of Ireland, which make me Irish, now I f I went to live in say The democratic republic of Sudan in Africa and I had a child there he may be a citizen of that country and may be entitled to a passport, but no one is going to tell me he is Sudanese, and your idea that everyone is entitled to be what they want to be is completely wrong, and a insult to those who have fought and died for there national freedom, such as James Connolly who gave his life for his heritage and his country, and if you believe that those who seek Irish or even British Citizenship who come from a background completely different from ours would do the same, then you have lost the plot.
Hail hail
for Celtic and Ireland
My father was born in Mayo.
My mothers’ grandparents came over at the end of the 19th century.
Only in Scotland does someone with that Irish connection face the sneers and smears about a 2GI identity.
I’m very glad I’m not there and my brood never experienced it.
I have similar heritage and consider myself Irish Scot in the USA no one blink’s a eye at when you consider yourself Irish American or Italian American Jewish American it’s very common to celebrate and remember your roots only in this bigotry ravished country would someone try to demean your heritage
Self-identifying may be a basic human right (although I’m not sure in which act or constitution you refer) but it won’t cut much ice at the border; you still won’t be accepted as the real thing.
We hear a lot of strained calls of ‘racist’, ‘antisemite’ & ‘homophobe’ these days. Some are germane but many are too readily used, and usually to close down debate.
Real racism is about power. In today’s world Ireland has grown into a self confident country with respected cultural, economic & political power – on a par with most of its EU partners. It is much more resilient in the face of misjudged comments directed towards (some of) its diaspora. Mhairi Black’s ill-judged comment is a dot on the horizon.
As an addendum, I’d just add that I thought I’d witnessed The most egregious racism I’d ever seen whilst living in Scotland & England; then I started working in Ireland between circa 2001 and 2012. It was staggering.
I’m not patriot of Scotland or Ireland, and am happy to recognise & call it where it shows its ugly head.
“you still won’t be accepted as the real thing”
I don’t often moderate racist comments for viewing.
However, for the purposes of education, I will allow yours.
Your aside is dripping with hatred.
It’s your last comment here.
“Being born in a stable does not make one a horse.” Is a quote from Dublin born Arthur Wellesley in order to deny his Irish ancestry. If it works one of Englands greatest sons the 1st Duke of Wellington then it works for me in choosing my Irish identity. I live in the southeast of England where folks seem a little more understanding.
Superhero,
Identity isn’t solely about where you were born. Or even where your parents/grandparents were born.
It’s not about DNA or addresses. It’s formed in each of us as we grow up, the experiences we have, the people around us.
Our Aunties, Uncles, Cousins, friends, neighbours…. history, politics, art, music, stories, books as well as nationhood, form a persons identity.
When you understand this, in the context of the Irish in Scotland, you will understand that this racism has to be challenged at every turn.
As an Irishman, you would do well to recognize that large swaths of the Scottish population still consider the Irish to be the ‘menace’ Scottish politicians considered only a generation ago…perhaps that would help you understand the issue more clearly.
Hail! Hail!
Indeed so.
That is why I wrote “Minority Reporter”.
There are very few books on the subject of anti-Irish racism in Scotland.
Yes Phil, you are right self defining is your call. However there is a nedness with some here, who have very odd ways, when celebrating their “irishness”. It is only ever for some eulogised around Irish politics. The Plastic Irish, phrase also tends to be used by born and Bred Irish who at times mock the sentiment. Roy Keane as an example has had a lot to say about the pedigree of some who have managed and played for Ireland. He would also question your own authenticity. However as a proud Scot, who knows the defined history of my nation and not just an unfortunate chapter, I am more than happy for those who prefer to self define.
She’ll go far in the SNP; still a nasty little anti- Catholic party. The Irish Voice article was way too lenient on them.
Nobody, including Black, mentioned religion.
I’ve been an SNP.member for 45 years and religion and especially anti Catholic .and nastiness has never ever been there .your comment should be deleted.. poor attempt to be nasty …
Are you deluded or think we are all stupid , up until the brave heart movie no Catholic with a brain would touch you WHY? I would love a indie Scotland , but you lot will never change your spots . PS all my 3 RC children voted Yes but all have now seen you for what you are . Offencive Behaviour Act my bum . You will never challenge yourselfs ☘
You sir are part of the problem.
Agree wholeheartedly. Ms Black was clearly alluding to people who use Irish culture and history for their own ends. It is presumptions to read anything into it without asking her for clarification.
Perhaps indicates the authors own intolerance
As a secretary of an SNP branch and a Catholic you are full of crap
Oh no it’s not! I can assure you of that as a Catholic member of the SNP. Religion has no place in politics but I have to wonder why, in Scotland, it always raises its head?
If the SNP are an “anti catholic party” to quote John McAree, then how come they have Catholic members and elected representatives?
I think from Mhairi Black’s statement she may have been brought up as a Catholic, as was I. Though later I became an agnostic.
As a youth at Holyrood Secondary, I was taught music by Peter Mallan, a former SNP candidate. I recall while at that school observing a 1992 general election debate and mock vote between the candidates for Glasgow Central.
Brendan O’Hara of the SNP and the “Not the View” Celtic fanzine won our mock vote.
Mhairi Black’s comments are disappointing and wrong and I would think she should apologise but that doesn’t mean the whole SNP are anti Catholic or indeed anti Irish.
There are enough anti Irish bigots in the British Labour Party.
I used to be in the SNP and can say that they were never anti catholic or any religion. Yes there are lots of nasty corrupt scum in that party and I can name a lot of them and the corruption they have been involved in right up to the leadership but they are no different to the other parties which are ALL establishment parties – I have reported them for their corruption including the REAL reason Alex Salmond resigned as leader the first time around including all the evidence and nothing got done because he and the SNP is establishment and protected just like all the rest of them.
Mhairie Black will do nothing for Paisley just like all the other MP’s before her no matter the party – lots of dumb people think that Douglas Alexander did a lot for Paisley until you ask them What? And of course then they cannot name one single thing. What has Mhairi done for Paisley so far apart from spout a lot of hot air while her party just like all the others is taking part in the debt/austerity SCAM that is causing all of the poverty and misery going on in this country and world on behalf of the Elite Bankers etc that control all of their parties. Mhairi and most of her MP’s and MSP’s will be gone at the next elections unfortunately the uneducated masses will think that voting for another banker etc controlled party the Labour Party is going to change things.
If a candidate does not advocate arresting and jailing the bankers and setting up our own bank using national credit – printing our own money with NO debt and interest and spending it into the economy creating jobs and building our infrastructure, health service etc then it is a waste of time voting for them and if you do not understand any of this then you should not be voting. If you do understand this and vote for them then you cannot blame anyone else for the state of this country and world.
Maybe I’ve got this wrong, but my guess is that Mhairi Black (like many others) who utter the phrase “plastic paddy” has never set foot outside of their native land, apart from the annual “homage” to drunken debauchery on the island of Ibiza, and the like.
I’ve been fortunate enough to have travelled the world, and experienced many cultures, customs, and religions that I had no prior knowledge or experience of. Having learned from, and embraced those differences, I am happy to confirm the assertion of Rabbie Burns that we are all indend “Jock Tamson’s bairns”.
Consider this: somewhere in this world is a Muslim with a barrow in a local market, selling fruit and veg to bring in the money that will feed and clothe his family, as well as put a roof over their head. Meanwhile, a few thousand miles away, on the streets of Dublin, there is an Irish Catholic selling fresh fruit and veg to do precisely the same thing as his muslim brother. Instead of dividing ourselves by creating artificial borders, and pidgeonholing each other, we should embrace our differences, whatever they may be. Hopefully, the day will dawn on Miss Black that there are more similarities between the populence of planet earth than there are differences. If I may paraphrase Only An Excuse’s Frank McAvennie caricature, Mhairi Black is guilty of “daft burd-ness”.
Ms. Black’s commentary was not ‘daft’.
This was a clear indication of what is a common, languid and dangerous attitude to Irish racism in Scotland. She also drew on other negative stereotypes that relate to Catholic Irish families in Scotland.
Unwittingly, she gave us a window into the real Mhairi Black, but unlike her notable performances in The Chamber, this interview wasn’t scripted by someone else and it revealed an unsavory part of her make-up.
I see there’s been the standard “banter” response to her insulting comments. Ill-informed, ignorant, immature, bigoted gob-shitery of the highest order. MP? What a joke.
A clarification is, I feel, important.
The Irish are most definitely not a race.
They are an ethnic group.
A race is unitary, Is a black Irishman capable of being abused racially because of his colour?
Certainly, yes.
Because he’s Irish?
No.
You are being pedantic. Does that make you a pedant? Probably.
No I’m not being pedantic.
Though, quite obviously you don’t understand the use of that word.
Probably the word you meant to use is factual.
A black Irishman would be abused doubly. Perhaps the Irish are not a race but that does not prevent their abuse by others, many of whom would be of the same race e.g. Scots and English.
” a black Irishman would be abused doubly” they are and always have been. In Ireland.
Zactly.
I was very fortunate to be able to supplement my earnings playing guitar and mandolin in various bands in London in the 7os, 80s & 90s. Most of this was in Irish bands all over London, but fondly, often in Cricklewood and Kilburn. This is where I first heard the term “plastic paddy”. I had to ask what it meant. So I would smile generously at an Irishman who used this term, as I then knew what he was talking about. It was used to describe people who pretended to be more Irish than they really were. Never once did I hear this term of comic derision used by an Englishman, Welshman or Scotsman. The term was exclusively used by the Irish in London, none of whom would be thought of as “racist” in their wildest dreams. It was used against the immensely talented Shane McGowan because he spoke with a London accent! Mhairi Black is an intelligent, conscientious and hard-working MP. She and her family are life-long Partick Thistle supporters. She made that quote about Celtic when she was a teenager. If you read the entire article in Holyrood Magazine, you would note that she said that she “hated Rangers more”. But, of course, you didn’t mention that. Perhaps the bigots on here would pause to reflect that someone disliking Celtic isn’t necessarily a Rangers supporter. I have long enjoyed reading your articles, Phil, but I don’t believe this article was worthy of your otherwise excellent output.
Chapeau !
Ach, it’s all ok then …. Her “hating rangers more” is irrelevant. Like many others, her plastic description is used as a disparaging attempt to undermine the strong ties that families here in Scotland have with their Irish ancestry. Would the same plastic term be used for asian people who have been settled here for generations?
Likewise , I was in London in the 80’s and 90’s , working a good deal on Building sites with 80% Irish born, working for Irish contractors. (not so much in the 90’s though the E Europeans were moving in and doing the jobs few wanted by then.)
I agree the term “plastic paddy ” was only used by Irish born, and I always took it to mean it was a derisory comment, aimed at some American or whoever, whose Grandfather had owned an Irish setter. or some other tenous claim to being “Irish ”
I never understood it to be an insult , or a swear word, just a term of derision.
Bill,
Partick, Sevco, Rangers (IL), Celtic or your guitar have nothing to do with the issue which Phil addresses.
Neither does Ms. Blacks hard work, Shane McGowans talent, or the Irish in London, whom you recall exclusively used – as you call it – the comedic phrase ‘Plastic Paddy’.
The issue is Irish racism in Scotland.
Perhaps having spent the 70s, 80s and 90s playing the Mandolin in London you missed it?
Growing up in West Central Scotland in the 80s and 90s, I did not.
This is about the widely accepted racism of a minority group in Scottish society. And to her shame, Ms. Black, with her comments, unknowingly crystallized it.
well bill i was in london then and i don ithnk you understand the term, it was not used to describe people who pretended to be more irish than they realy were, it was used to by some nasty irish born people who in some way resented people whom were born to irish parernts in any part of the UK because they were jealous of them or they were better looking than them as a term of abuse.
It was a deliberate term of abuse by some irish people upon other people who were irish as both their parents were irish so they were irish contrary to what you say.
This was a small minority of sad irish people who made these comments as in every society there will always be peolpe btter about life because of their own insecurities and inadequacies
Mahir black was brought uip in glasgow whe knew excatly what she as doing and saying and dont let anybody tell you otherwise, that would be niave in the extreme.
I was born in glasgow to irish parents and have lived plenty places the US UK and so on and i can assure you even the people from Glasgow who have been away for years in places like london are very aware of the irish / scots celtic / rangers divide, manys the time on a bullidng site you wold meet a fellow glaswegian and the first thing your mates would ask was is he a tim.
And Bill I think i am irish, am i not as irtish as i think i am, is that what you are saying, i consder myself irish, not scots, i dont dislike scots, i love the glagow sense of humour and many things aboiut scotland but i was brought up in an irish household and never really felt at hoime in scotland even though i had a very good childhood there in the gorbals. Some nasty irish people would call me a plastic paddy and they would know exactly what they were saying, just as mhairi knew exactly what she as saying.
Phil, as you know, and have permitted me to comment, you and I have very different views as to what actually constitutes ‘racism’. I believ my belief to be so much the better founded, but hey-ho. We will continue – with mutual respect – to differ. I sincerely believe you are totally wrong despite sharing, in varying degrees, a mutual bloodline in the Emerald Isle.
Firstly, all social media is now in the position where rational dialogue on almost any topic is now virtually impossible. Abuse is far more common than serious debate (a slippery slope to fascism). Terms like ‘plastic’ are seriously debased, having long since reached a nadir at least two or three decades ago. This was largely applied to football supporters who switched allegiance as quickly as the buses they commuted on.
Secondly, football supporters of almost all stripes, are not capable of rational discourse, either about their teams or any other. So it is not unusual to hear terms like ‘scum’ used widely.
Thirdly, the use of anonymous nom-des-plumes has allowed the growth of vitriolic keyboard warriors whose nastiness demeans us all. It has been said that this abhorrent bile, like Western writing, too often spews from Left to Right. At times I find that hard to disagree with. I doubt you would find many such comments were we all compelled to use our ‘Sunday’ names.
As for the wee bauchle in question, she clearly sees herself as a gallus wee class warrior on the road to that halcyon state of independence, with no real memory of the things she’s written before, especially those a while ago. To me, she’s an immature wee stumour who has a long way to go to grow up. If she was five times the person she thinks she is she’d still be a tiny fraction of the person actually in standing there. That’s my view and I’ll stick to that.
She’s an opportunist. Her maiden MP speech plagiarised Jimmy Reid. He left the Labour Party before you were born.
Sorry, Phil, but the Italian community in Scotland were most certainly NOT afforded a cultural space denied to the Irish.
My grandfather came to Scotland with his wife in 1900 – when they were both 21 years old-from Vallerotonda and set up a business of 2 cafes in Glasgow. He fought in World War 1 on our side and his son, my father, volunteered at 19 and fought in the British 8th Army in WW2 ( i.e .Tobruk, El Alemein, Monte Cassino etc., etc.)
For that my grandfather, along with thousands of other Italians, were thanked by being locked up in the Isle of Man during WW2 by the Scots and Churchill–“round the aliens up”, or such like. Meanwhile none of his daughters could get war-time work (i.e the munitions/land army) until they changed their surname as suggested by my father, who fought in Italy.
And you forget the Arandora Star where many thousands of Italians, established business men (and adopted Scots), from central Scotland perished on route to deportation to Canada courtesy of a German U-boat.
Meanwhile, their shops and businesses were burned and looted by the native (hun) Scots community!
Thank you! Too many in Scotland delude themselves. Your contribution is spot on. As for the Arandora Star, the Italians were herded into the bowels of the ship (unlike the Germans) and had no chance of survival.
My own father changed his name from Sbragia to Hughes (his mother’s maiden name) because of the “problems” he encountered. Grandad Sbragia immediately disowned dad, leaving all his assets to my aunt Teresa. My great maternal grandfather came from Rossnowlagh in Donegal, so I am Scottish, Irish Italian born and living in Scotland. I am real and am not plastic in any way !
Phil, you can correct me if I am wrong, but is not the term still used in Ireland ? I remember Dermot O’leary telling of people in his family in Wexford calling him a plastic paddy because he lived in the English culture. I stand to be corrected.
As you say Phil, it gets swept under the carpet in Scotland and treated as acceptable banter, just as the so called “traditions” of some to offend and confront at places of religious worship are all paert of the game to them. I dont accept the catholic background as any type of excuse for some elected jumped up foul mouthed munter to make such a comment, she certainly wouldn;t do it to any irish womans face, but then thats not her audience is it…
“Munter” and you have the audacity to state Mhairi Black is ‘foul mouthed’ ! Look in the mirror
Methinks this is a Scottish Labour forum.
Mhiara black is not working class,she is like you Phil,a lefty uni type,who have never done a days work in their lives??
Being young, working class and openly gay … does not necessarily a good politician make. Likewise having gone to Eton doesn’t mean you’re a bigot.
I guess if you judge people according to the boxes ticked rather than say, what they’re like, you’ll inevitably be disappointed.
She sounds horrible. Like the SNP.
She is a nationalist so let us forgive her her sins.
If she was a unionist would you be so forgiving?
Independence at any cost?
The best wee bigoted anti-Catholic country in the world.
Bar none.
Well said my sentiments indeed .
Not all Italian experiences in Scotland have been positive. My neighbour is a third generation Italian-Scot. She told me when her grandfather and his brothers were looking to emigrate from Italy their first choice was America. They were put off when a family member told them they would be extorted by the Mafia and treated worse than the Irish. They decided on Scotland. It went well until the WWII when they were interred for the duration. After the war, my neighbour and her family were regularly racially abused, including having the windows of their houses and businesses frequently broken by racists.She added it only stopped when Black and Asian immigrants began arriving in Scotland and the same racists turned their abuse and violence towards them. In spite of all that, the family remained in Scotland.
Cardinal Cullen once said;
Irish protestants are foreigners and not part of ireland.
I dont think this should have stopped him being Irelands first cardinal and neither should this you woman be required to resign.
The moment we admit this is not all one sided we may be able to begin to find a solution.
Irish Protestants like Theobald Wolfe Tone or Robert Emmet?
Ridiculous strawman argument.
I gave the girl the benefit of doubt for her previous misgivings due to her socialist leanings and passed them off as foolish comments aimed to favour herself to a certain demographic in the chase for votes. Now I am not so sure. If the the SNP truly want an inclusive Scotland then they must rid themselves of the institutionally racist and corrupt of which they are riddled. She is young and does not have the maturity and experience of life that such a role requires. Stupid soundbites will be her Downfall.
nothing accidental about her comments ,
given previous well publicised comments , she is a highly objectionable individual .
any acceptance of these comments emboldens the[se] people and they should be brought under a spot light ever time they are espoused .
Anyone in any doubt as to how her “plastic irishmen” comment should be viewed needs to look slightly deeper here.
First off, “plastic irishmen” isn’t even a thing. It’s simply a euphemism for the much better-known term “plastic paddies.”
Still not seeing how that’s racist?
OK, let’s shift our ethnic focus from 2nd- or 3rd-generation irish folk to 2nd or 3rd-gen asian folk. So now imagine she’d called some asian British guys “plastic pakistanis” – or the well-known shortened form of “pakistanis” that sounds a bit like “paddies”.
Personally, I’m not exactly what would be described as a social justice warrior – but anyone who doesn’t get why that sort of language is a problem… is part of the problem.
If you look at her previous history you will find that she is a staunch supporter of team that play at Ibrox and has some very partisan views on Irish catholics. This women should not be allowed anywhere near politics in Scotland.
She’s a Partick Thistle supporter. I’ve seen her and her father at Thistle home and away games. She also went to Lourdes RC Secondary School In Cardonald. Her father used to teach Maths there.
Yes Johnny you are correct, however for the easily led, that fact does not suit the shallow subjective narrative.
Calling somebody a ‘plastic Irishman’ isn’t racist for pete’s sake.. If I called someone a beautiful Irishman would that be racist???
Sadly, Mhairi has previous on this topic.
Why would you be surprised when miss Black has in the past shown her anti celtic and Irish coulours the lady is a BIGOT
Phil, given her Catholic background I doubt that there was any racist intent. She is at worst misguided.
Some of the responses to her on twitter from those who suggest that they are offended, are frankly disgraceful. Usual stuff about her appearance, voice and sexuality. Happy to celebrate my own, rich Irish Heritage. However I would never attempt to force it down somone’s throat. There are some out there who do just that. That is as much a part of the problem.
She is a horrendous individual who has a total “ look at me” attention seeking complex. I seem to remember when she first became an MP she also though it would be a good idea to tell the world “ I fu**** hate Celtic” she shouldn’t be anywhere near government on any level .
I believe you ‘remember wrongly’ her ‘tweets’ were out of order but made years before she was an MP
I fu##### hate asparagus does this debar me from ever being a politician also.
In itself no.
However if you hate any group of humans beings it may.
Yep, definitely Phil
I’m never really surprised when a Nationalist spouts racism.
Utter pish. You’d rather remain a part of the “glorious” united kingdom ?
You’d be happier in an orange Scotland. Just look at the lengths Smsm have went to to keep sevco at the top of the page in every paper in Scotland. Snp should come clean. 55p in the pound to keep the services we have 22% employment in the public sector. The oils gone the monies spent they can have as many blue papers or white papers as they want. If we had of voted for independence we would have a 450 billion debt add another 12 billion over spend each year..if iam lying give us idyref tomorrow Snp would lose big time
An Orange Scotland? So you believe they really are the People? Orange Types are the laughing stock of the intellectual and articulate. Of course you will be one of those mixed up “british republicans”
Your the one confusing SNP with republicanism. wee eck had a word with HMRC to try and call the dogs off rangers as they were a Scottish institution. Short memory
I trust that remark wasn’t directed to me. How ironic the Celtic fans and those of Irish descent in Scotland voting to stay in the union and under the same glorious union that they profess to hate so much. Independence is not the sole remit of the SNP. Staying in tbe union is no more the answer for Scotland now then it was Ireland 100 years ago.
Only if you want to be skint for the next 50 years. Iam scottish
And don’t require independence to make me any more so
Phil, you are being absurdly precious about nothing and it doesn’t help to resolve the very real issues. Nor does Jeanette Findlay’s pish.
If you can’t recognise that ‘plastic paddy’ is a colloquialism for a very real reflection of certain Celtic fans wanting to believe that they were born in Donegal and spirited out by their families, despite being fourth generation Scots, then you need to get back over here and reacquaint yourself.
Issue was some young lassie had her social media history dragged up. This was done by the Scottish Labour party to try and discredit her in the eyes of their traditional Catholic support. The majority of intelligent people saw it for what it was. Some yahoos took the bait and abused her – the plastic paddies. She called them out as such. No harm done.
Anyway, off out to my Tim mates house for dinner. I won’t be able to reply to your glib response.
Cheers
Davie
“…being absurdly precious…”
You’re part of the problem.
Ok as candid as ever phil here’s my take, as a second generation Indian in Scotland, born here.
I class myself as a Scot foremost, and part of a wider britain with a small b!
I kinda get what some people say about some people from areas known historically for Irish immigration. In the Garngad, Gorbals etc. Who have more an imagined view of Ireland (now please read carefully what I say).
By those I mean, they have never been to Ireland.
They wouldn’t have a clue where cork or Dublin is on the map.
They wouldn’t know that the widest grassroots game played is the GAA games be it hurling or football. My own partner falls into this category. She had never been to Ireland until I actually took her. She knew almost nothing of the uprising of 1916. She couldn’t tell you who Ireland’s first PM was. She would struggle to know who the current one was.
Would struggle to tell you about Michael Collins or James Joyce but may have heard of James Connolly cos “they sang a bit about him at Celtic Park.”
I took her to the post office (was still an active P.O. then) she actually didn’t realise what the GPO was. The shell marks nothing.
Now, there are a lot of people of Indian and Pakistani descent who I would describe exactly as the same as some of those 3rd gen Irish I described. It’s the badge they are after. It’s partly what ther parents told them.
They couldn’t tell you who was first Indian PM post partition. Or who Jinnah was.
They couldn’t tell you much about Amritsar
The sad thing is the Irish like yourself phil, who are actually Irish as you know about your roots. Get tarred by those who seek something else from the Irish or Indian or Italian…..
BUT U KNOW WHAT? It’s bang out of order to use that horrible phrase plastic p.
It’s because Irish are mainly white and nearby nation they are mocked for being different. As well as a general dislike of them to by the fuckers like Mhairi Black.
Racism is wrong period. And no I don’t look down on a 3rd gen Irish or Indian who is ignorant of their past but want the badge. I just wish they would educate themselves better as they do others who have close affinity to parents and grandparents land and massive dis service.
HH
Hi Phil
Just back from my Tim mate’s for dinner. We all had a great time, especially our four children. I’ve had a right few bevvies so apologies for a lack of articulacy.
I was expecting a glib response and you certainly delivered. In no way did you engage with any of my points. Indeed you honed in on three words in my first sentence that would have done the GASL proud.
To say I am part of the problem is laughably misguided. I am absolutely part of the solution. I was a Ranger’s fan for 30 years until I grew sick of the bigotry surrounding me. And simply could take no more. The revelation they didn’t pay tax ran aground on my socialist principles. Their stance on the indy ref (and you seem quite reticent – old school SLAB perchance?) was the absolute final straw.
Presently I correct my friends and nudge their prejudices. I present a gentle counter argument with information gleaned from sites like yours or the SFM when presented with SMSM bias. I’m in a position that you an d many of your acolytes aren’t
So again….please do not call this atheist, liberal living in Scotland part of the problem. I would posit I’m doing very much more than you to resolve problems (and I haven’t mentioned my professional input) than your good self.
Hic
Davoe
Not the first time Mhairi has done this.well known for her comments even before she was elected.
Ms Black has form on this. In 2015 the Daily Record published a story on her drunken antics and how she “Really Hated Celtic fans” . The word Scum was in there somewhere. I would need to look it up on the Record Website.
Well, we all know the Daily Record is an impeccably reliable source of information! Hard to credit anyone would even admit to ‘reading’ it.
Well said Phil sadly her days as a MP are numbered she has let our chldrens ward close here in Paisley RAH.
Think you will find she was against closure. She is not a one woman government.
No but she’s obviously racist
NHS matters are dealt with by the Scottish Parliament. Who is the MSP for the area ?
I suppose the SNP could have kept it open at the cost of free tuition fees, free bus passes for the elderly, free prescriptions. Somethings have to give.
Clearly people do not understand that the Health Boards are autonomous. That is why Chief Execs are paid nearly £200,000 a year to run them. The government can only interfere on matters of National importance, or National interest. Every Health area has its own Board of Directors to make local decisions.
An unreserved apology should be forthcoming followed by a reaching out
I’m a big fan of Mhairi, I hope that she has the humility to accept that this reference is unacceptable and makes a suitable apology. Thanks for posting this Phil or I may have been less informed.
Remember her tweeting ‘Celtic fans are scum’ a couple of yeats ago. She has previous as does the SNP.
I’m afraid ms black has previous….see her comments ‘re her hatred of Celtic supporters, these comments were before her rise to MP, don’t let that bigot, kid anyone she represents herself & her kind unfortunately she was elected to represent everyone.
She is a Bigot, She has previous.
Miss Black is also on record professing her love of Partick Thistle F.C.,whilst in the same breath declaring her dislike of Celtic supporters.
Possibly a patern developing here
So ,you don’t believe that there is anti catholic racism broadcast from the terraces at Ibrox under the banner of Ulster and No Surrender every second week?.Almost all extol the virtues of UVF, UFF UDA etc Most have been born in Scotland as far as I know, but there you go.
Are they real Irish ? Or do you have another more suitable no de plume?
Mhairi is a breath of fresh air in UK politics. She’s passionate, fearless and a real working class hero.
I’m going to let this one go. I sincerely doubt she meant any offence. Lets save our breath for the true bigots in Scottish society. And we all know who they are as you frequently call them out Phil. And rightly so!
If you choose to let racism go then don’t complain if you get more of it from the same source.
Absolutely phil
The same mp tweeted years ago & deleted it just as quickly about Neil Lennon being a ginger haired taig & how she hated him ect. Same mind set.
This is not the first time. Not so long ago she said she hated Celtic so Mhairi has previous.
Well iam not. This is not the first time she has used derogatory terms with regard to celtic fans.. The SNP is not a republican movement that’s the mistake ex labour supporters of Catholic /Irish persuasion have made. William cuthbertson”billy”Wolfe was the leader of the SNP check his piece on the” papist visit” to Scotland of John Paul ll. Salmond called him a visionary. THE SNP WOULD DON THE COLOURS OF THE RIGHT IF THEY THOGHT IT WOULD BRING INDEPENDANCE. They are so sly that they would build a nest in your ear and you wouldn’t notice.. Infact I think they have
Better to remain silent and be thought of as a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Dr. Johnson.
Pity you didn’t thake his advice then