Anti-Catholic bigotry and anti-Irish racism are heavily intertwined in the contemporary Scottish context.
The latter, in particular, is probably the last socially acceptable hatred in modern Scotland.
Therefore, I was heartened to see this public meeting advertised on Twitter last night.
However, the hatred of Catholics and enmity towards the Irish and Irishness are discrete.
I explored that distinction in my book Minority Reporter. Scotland’s bad attitude towards her own Irish (2013 Frontline Noir).
This meeting, if it is a harbinger of a societal movement against these prejudices, represents an overdue development.
The Quintessentially British chap on the Follow Follow immediately reacted to this news with unsurpassed dignity.
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Of course, it not just among the culturally unfortunate of Ibrox that such prejudicial attitudes can be found.
For example, cannot think that a Scottish MP would survive if they causally deployed a racist term against any other ethnic minority in Scotland.
However, Ms Mhairi Black MP is still in a job because her target was the Irish in Scotland.
For the avoidance of doubt, the Paisley-based politician would probably style herself as a committed advocate for the socially excluded and marginalized.
Her trenchant denunciations in the Commons of Tory austerity make for fine parliamentary theatre.
Her analysis is impossible to disagree with and she might even mean it.
In this piece I outlined the efforts I went to elicit an adequate response from the office of Ms Black.
When that was not forthcoming I contacted the office of First Minister.
My reasoning was that if Ms Black would not address her use of that hurtful and derogatory term then perhaps her boss would!
Her very personable PR chap asked me for more time to frame a response to my questions that I has put to Ms Sturgeon.
This process lasted several months.
Moreover, I suspect that if my father had hailed from Madras instead of Mayo then my request would have been dealt with as a matter of urgency.
This entire episode reminded me of a talk I gave at the Changein Scotland conference in 2011.
Sadly, I have not noticed any appreciable change in Scotland since I gave that lecture seven years ago.
During that lecture, a chap who would later go to to be an MSP sat in the corner of the room with his laptop. He interjected several times to read out comments about me that had been posted on the Follow Follow website.
It was clearly an attempt to put me off the flow of the lecture I was giving.
I asked him if he provided this ‘service’ to all of the speakers.
He didn’t reply, but he did stop interrupting my lecture.
Later that day I caught up with him in the bar and tried to explain the issues around being Second Generation Irish in his country.
I reiterated to him what I had said in the lecture:
If my father was Italian and not Irish and that my mother’s grandparents were all Irish and I was living in Italy and travelled on an Italian passport and I spoke Italian then he would probably agree that I was…gasp…Italian!
He was, at best, dismissive of my thesis.
Then I noted recently on Twitter that this chap, now an MSP, was very proud to get an Irish passport.
I replied to his tweet with “perhaps you were paying attention in Ullapool after all”.
He didn’t reply.
I hope that this public meeting is the start of something.
I know several of the people involved and they all bring a considerable skill set to the table.
Of course, in Scotland 2018 it shouldn’t be needed, but it is.
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I would argue that the last socially acceptable hatred in modern Scotland is that towards the descendants of Irish protestants who choose to openly express their cultural identity. I count myself amongst those who dislike them, due to many of their bigoted beliefs and values which I cannot share. If we are being honest, no-one here is getting too upset at their terminal decline, as their own young people increasingly turn their back on the old ways, beliefs and traditions. (The same thing is also happening big time to the Catholic church in Ireland)
I would go further and say that,in modern Scotland, it is actually a socially acceptable prerequisite to dislike those who openly support the Orange Order. I for one wouldn’t let one of them in my house or sit in their company in a bar. I probably would not hire or promote someone for a job if I knew they were an active member of an Orange Lodge. Many otherwise moderate and generally open minded people I know feel the same way. Like members of far right/ racist political organisations they are, socially and ideologically, a bridge too far.
Calling it out is all well and good, but what we need to do is acknowledge and take ownership of our own prejudice first.
Off topic Phil…but…
I don’t know if Lenny will have time to read your blog or not…but I’m sure that he has mates who do…and then pass on relevant bits to him.
So following his pathetic and Sevco like outburst after the game yesterday about “the 12 th man etc;”
I hope they pass this on…
Utter Bollocks Neil….You should be ashamed of yourself.
Well said TN.
Neil runs the risk of souring the excellent relationship he has with Celtic fans by coming out with this utter nonsense.
The referee actually had quite a good game, which is something I don’t often say where Scottish refs are concerned.
The only problem I had with him was his inconsistency with his bookings.
Neil is right that Benkovic should have been booked but so should two or three others in the match, including a couple of other Hibs players.
The two main women in my life were and are…Protestants.
My mother…may she rest in peace…was a great mother who, along with dad, brought up her children in the Catholic faith…by ensuring we carried out our duties.
My Grandpa on her side was a Free Mason…and my Granny had brief ties to the LOL.
My wife, who has been with me for over 50 years, is from a family of blue-noses…( one or two being bitter)…but at no time has that ever been a problem in our relationship.
I did punch her brother in the pub once over a Celtic versus them game…but we were just daft laddies…and it was soon forgotten.
So when I read about Organisations such as this having to stand up for themselves in the face of intolerance and bigotry…it saddens me no end.
What the hell does it matter where a person comes from…or what their religion is ?
There are more than enough problems in our world…without ones like this.
But power to them…
If it needs addressed and sorted…then go for it.
Phil is it safe assume that if this event is poorly attended, then there is no real desire to tackle the issue. That is, If it genuinely is an issue in the first Place. Don’t get me wrong, this meeting I suspect may have been better attended not so long ago. However as the bloodline gets thinner by the generation, and atheism, ups its game, interest in such events I suspect, will be held only by those driving a very subjective narrative
No, it is not safe to assume that at all.
It is the first public meeting of an embryonic organisation.
Therefore, it will be a case of small acorns.
“that is, If it genuinely is an issue in the first Place. “-a clumsy attempt at trolling.
Phil, is your definition of a troll someone who does not fall in to line. I have historically been consistent on the Irish racism issue. My Previous posts will confirm that. My Granny would have been all for this get together my father would not have attended, however he may have given a wry smile, and allowed others to light the fire. I would rather see Scotland focus more on it chronic issues with alcohol abuse, and the legacy that has been left on wasted generation’s.
I’m not sure if post will be deleted, as has happened to some of my other posts, but here goes anyway… Pointing out anything bad about any religion, be it Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Buddhism, Protestant or Catholic does not make you a bigot. I was born a Catholic, therefore I had no choice in the matter. I have since come to realize that Catholicism has a disgusting history of torture and murder, has an endemic current problem with child abuse and pedophilia, has riches beyond imagination yet collects money from the poor, and encourages it’s followers to partake in cannibalistic rituals (holy communion). None of this is to my taste so I turned my back on it. I am not a bigot, I believe in a divine creator and support Glasgow Celtic. I try to get on with everyone no matter which corrupt religion they may have been born into and continue to follow. What I would like to see is my football club disassociating itself with any religion. To some extent the club has indeed done this very thing without forgetting or respecting its roots, but unfortunately the fans still identify the club as a “Catholic Club”. You certainly won’t hear me chant “God Bless the Pope!” on a match day and I suspect those who do would think twice if they knew the true nature of this despicable person and what he truly represents.
Racism is currently deliberately being used to destroy cultures and nations. Our Irish forefathers fought hard and died in battle to become independent from the British rule. Now the Irish go along with the European open border policy designed to ruin individual cultures, because if they don’t they are labeled “racist”. Our forefathers will be turning in their grave. The European Union project is designed to eradicate a country’s identity in order to create a New World Order one government dictatorship. There is a fine line we tread between being proud to belong to a country and fight to retain it’s culture and identity and risk being labeled “racist” for doing so. There is also a fine line between enjoying the rivalry of a local football team, and obsessively hating them because they identify with a culture you despise.In my experience, those who use the words racist and bigot in an accusing manner are generally the most racist and bigoted.
Tory voter?
NovasPerv – No mainstream party represents my beliefs so I don’t vote for any of the rogues. If forced to vote I would vote for UKIP.
Pretty distorted stuff your passing as factual.
Who said anything about being a bigot for pointing out bad things.
Question without the context of religion what is a bad thing? What is a good thing? Who decides?
You have clearly read something that you have decided is factual and based your conclusions on potentially false assumptions.
You have heard some stories that may or may not be true in particular instances and induced to the general based on small sample of “bad things”
Catholicism has disgusting history with torture and murder- I know what your implying here but really need a better objective read of the stuff you have accepted.
Endemic current probe;em with child abuse- again very distorted non objective labelling. Any kind of abuse is unacceptable but to blanket carpet bomb all Catholics as having endemic problem is false. The fact that there are more secular teachers than priests and the the percentage of Teachers per head being child abusers is 10 times higher than percent of religious Catholics in independent studies suggests your distorting the problem and pointing fingers in religious direction as if that would somehow solve the issue.
The percent of Catholic religious pedrophilia is much lower than pedophilai per capita generally and even lower than other christian groups suggests you are basing your information on twisted interest groups.
The accusation of cannabalism is odd to say the least.
You don’t want to be associated with catholicism. thats your beef. You want atheism, takes a lot of faith to be an atheist. And the record of atheism countries in solving any of the problems you associate with religion suggest that perhaps the Soviet system and communist system and the french revolution system have tried your suggestions and well they turned out just as rancid as the fake religious.
The fact you blame religion for the world issues means you either are a bigot. Or you just take nonsense as your right to spout garbage then pretend its not bigotry.
You don’t want to be religious that your call. You want to blame religion for things you don’t like you need better objective rationale for your false concern. Plenty of non religious people do bad things. Should all non religious people be tarred with the evil brush?
You believe in a divine creator but have decided that religion is bad?
Evil individuals dont make a religion false. False doctrines make a religion false. Celtic have never been a Catholic club. They have been open to any religion which means that Catholics in Scotland have been welcome into the club.
You dont want to be seen as bigoted but have some false doctrines of your own when deciding what is good and bad by the sounds of things. Your faith is your faith but if it somehow prevents say Catholics to have same rights as you then maybe just maybe you might be a bigot./
The fact you can’t understand the simple concept that a person can believe in a Divine Creator without the need to belong to a religion, tells me your not worth the effort to discuss anything with, however I see you used the words “The Gestapo Has Spoken” – It amuses me to tell you that one of the first things the Gestapo did when Hitler’s National Socialists came to power in Germany was to infiltrate and close down Masonic Lodges.
More wonderful guff.
1 I can indeed understand that people could believe in a divine creator. In fact I believe its very possible to rationally come to that conclusion. But since that would or should pique an interest in the truth and its source and how and what its all about then I can conclude from your views that you are in no way interested in the truth. You are however interested in spreading misinformation that you may6 or not even believe yourself. Which leads me to the conclusions your are a bare faced twisted truth fudger aka a liar and a fraud.
2 Im not responding to you to have a conversation. Im responding to highlight your hypocrisy. You felt the need to tell people on a blog a great big tale of calumny and invective and also to say your not a bigot.
3 The gestapo take the truth and twist it suit a false agenda as do the other secret societies and secret police. Why on earth it would amuse you to talk about the gestapo and thier hatred of another heinous organistaion is beyond anyone. Let alone on a blog one Phils site about Catholic or should I say anti catholic hatred in a free world tells all the reader a little about your motivations,
4 The gestapo hated catholics just as much as you do. Where they not bigots either?
5 Maximilien Kolbe one of the greatest minds of the 20th century. With no money he created a religious city in Poland. He fought injustice and he wrote extensively on the subversive demonic aspects of MAsonry. He founded the Knights of the immaculata. He went to Nagasaki before the war the Big Catholic city in Japan with no money and no japanese and started a convent. Retruned to Poland when the war was imminent with germany. Despite being one of the main people gestapo wanted to capture. He was captured and sent to aushwitz. Simply because he was an influential and true religious. He gave hios food to the starving in the camp often earting nothing. He never once opposed the harsh treatment he recieved and his inspired so many ordinary poepl sentenced to the death camp[ to keep fighting to stay alive. He took the place of a man with children who has been randomly selected to starve to death in a rancid hole. After 15 days he still hadnt died and his singing the rosary was demoralising the german guards so they inhected him with poison to end him since starving him wasnt working to thier expectation.
6 The masonic government in USA decided to land a second atomic bomb in Japan who had surrendered. They choose the Catholic city of Nagasaki and theprimary target was the catholic cathedral. They didnt want catholicism filling the hole of the emperor. One of the few building and people of Nagasaki who didnt get killed by the blast or the fallout was the nuns in the convent of Maximilien Kolbe. Coincidence ? Maybe!
What i find amusing is you cant see the irony of being compared with the Gestapo mind and voice. I dont actually find it amusing i find it rather disturbing that you use your free speech to talk anti religion but mention divine creator. Then use your free speech to promote hatred but claim your no bigot. And worst of all taking a small sample of evidense to base general hatred of all religion. Are you aware thats excatly what the gestapo did?
I give you a quote which due to your cringe worthy ignorance and stupidity will go way over your head “There is one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance”. – Socrates
The gestapo has spoken
Racism, pure and simple, is wrong. I have worked with 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th-generation Asians when I lived in Heston (Middx), which borders Southall. We all got on famously together. If pushed, I couldn’t even tell you if their ethnic origins were Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi, or even Sri Lankan – it’s not that important to me! However, there are certain elements in Scotland that make me thoroughly ashamed to call myself Scottish – including my cousin, who was once the deputy grandmaster of the orange lodge (the one that was shocked into “chucking it” when he saw pictures of the RUC officer’s riot helmet severely damaged by a baton round, or similar object), but who had referred to my family’s Catholic neighbours as “worshippers of the anti-christ” a few years earlier, and who – incredibly – is now a church of Scotland minister in Fife! If he turns up at my own funeral, that will be one meeting too many for me! I have no fear of calling out bigots – never have, and never will! As a “non-practising protestant”, I may well be tempted to attend this event, to lend my support.
We are a’ Jock Tamson’s bairns… it’s high time some people were dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. Here’s hoping that this “tiny acorn” becomes a mighty oak tree!
Will you be going Phil?