I have in times past upset some SNP types by accurately characterising Holyrood as a “regional assembly”.
They Like to pretend that the Holyrood legislature is a national parliament, i.e. the law-making body of a sovereign state.
It isn’t.
That’s Westminster they’re thinking about.
I cannot ignore what a degree in political science taught me about the defining characteristics of a polity.
Only two legislatures within these islands have a seat at the United Nations and can deploy armed forces.
Neither of them is in Edinburgh.
Now Judges at the Supreme Court have ruled that provisions in two bills passed by MSPs were beyond Holyrood’s powers.
The first was the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, and the second was the European Charter of Local Self-Government.
I saw that the story even made it across the water to this learned blatt.
Of course, this ruling by the UK Supreme Court has clear implications for Holyrood and IndyRef2.
Angus Brendan MacNeil is entirely correct; it is indeed a reality check.
I visited the subject last year in this piece.
The fundamental truth is that while the SNP folks recognise Westminster as their national parliament, they must accept their regional status.
They turn up at the start of the parliamentary session and swear allegiance to the Saxe-Coburg family.
As per the featured image, this is what sociologists call a degradation ceremony.
Here is some top-class grovelling by Ms Sturgeon to the Brit’s hereditary head of state.
“a democratic and a cultural moment….”
Dear oh dear…
At best, Ms Sturgeon and her fellow monarchists are Redmondites who recognise Westminster and, ipso facto, they will ultimately fail in the stated objective to break away from the British state.
As I explored in 2019, power devolved is power retained, and as I stated in that piece, it also goes for the SDLP in the Six Counties.
They, too, turn up to Westminster, swear the oath of the Saxe-Coburg crime family and take the shilling.
Swearing allegiance “under protest” is still swearing allegiance Colm.
The inconvenient truth for the SNP is that while they accept Westminster’s ultimate sovereignty over Scotland, then they will have to be content with what their rulers in London give them.
Anything else is just theatre.
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JP58, on this site Duncan is always careful to avoid mentioning that he’s an ex-squaddie who played his part in oppressing the nationalists in the six counties. Now domiciled in his beloved Engerland, he is anxious to do the same to his fellow Scots. Once a ‘Soldier of the Queen’ ,always one:
“To fight for England’s glory lads”
“Of her worldwide glory let us sing”
“And when they ask us how we won”
“And when they ask us how it’s done”
“We’ll proud point to every one of England’s soldiers of Queen”.
Like James Connolly and countless others who have served their Country without prejudice you first have to take part in a wrong to recognise what is right.
Young men tend to make rash decisions that only in hindsight does it become clear
Nice bit of trolling all the same.
Why this has any relevance to my objections to being ruled by a bunch of unelected European Thatcherite’s is anyones guess 🤷🏻♂️
My only surprise is that Phil you let this past the usual high standards of acceptability in here.
Ps Just so you know ,it is good an honourable thing to serve your Country provided that is you do serve it honourably.
Which btw I did and a great many have.
Feline-thrown-amongst-pigeon-gatherings- PMGB EXCELLENCE EXTRAORDINAIRE😂
Old Duncan certainly likes the sound of his own voice and doesn’t half go on a bit. In my experience you cannot discuss or have a reasonable discussion with fanatics like him so best to let him shout away to himself and ignore him for your own sanity.
Apart from Scotland a majority in Northern Ireland also voted to stay in EU. Yet DUP and Frost (never elected and from House of Lords) keep going on about what the people of Northern Ireland want as they bang on about NI Protocol and unelected EU bureaucrats. You honestly couldn’t make it up – not even Duncan.
I am fervently opposed to Neoliberal Capitalism (Thatcherism) and the constant push for Globalisation by the Elite and so will openly share my thoughts on it whenever the subject arises.
Phil provides a platform for open debate whilst also making it abundantly clear he’s a Europhile seduced by Brussels who has no love for U.K. Government which is fine by me as they are guilty of plenty wrongdoing themselves past and present.
It would appear you and our anonymous friend would rather an opposing view be silenced.
Good luck with that.
Over 1.66m Scots voted for Remain out of an Electorate of over 3.98m
Just over 1m voted for Brexit.
Which means 1.3m voters were either blootered that day or simply couldn’t be arsed either way.
The question of Independence was raised and it was correctly pointed out that Scotland hasn’t voted for Tory rule since 1955 yet had been forced to endure many Tory Westminster Governments since.
The facts are however we’ve had 7 Labour Governments since 1955 but since 2010 when Scotland voted for an SNP majority we’ve not had a single Labour Government since and no real likelihood we will in the near future.
Supposed Socialist leaning Scots would rather back the Tartan Neoliberals and head straight back to Europe for a lifetime of Thatcherism being delivered by an unelected Neoliberal Commission.
Well excuse me if I don’t find that slightly confusing or alarming and please excuse me further as I oppose the idea of such a thing.
I was advised to go read a book which is fine.
I like Grisham and Follett.
Well I will counter that advice and suggest that you go to spec savers get your eyes tested and put whatever you are reading down because you won’t see past the smoke and mirrors of the EU unless you do.
Austerity will be a much used term in the next few years.
Well those rising debts won’t pay for themselves will they?
What the hell has the EU got to do with Thatcherism? Yer talking’ pish!
Thatcher had a heavy influence on the Single Market in Europe.
She was as Neoliberal as those who continue control the EU and it’s policy making.
Privatisation of Nationalised Industries
Freedom of movement for Economic Migrants
Lowering of Tariffs at Borders
Castration the Unions
Handing Control to the Banks
Placing the Tax Burden on the Population whilst removing the liability from the Corporations who continue to benefit most from this arrangement which ultimately leads to
Boom and Bust Politics (see 2008 as the most recent example) and the Austerity designed to “fix it” ( ie reset ,rinse and repeat )
It all comes from the same place and Europe at the moment is the end result.
Globalisation of the Single Market of course is the end game.
In rejecting it here by means of Brexit we at least had a chance to break the cycle however if Socialist leaning voters continue to vote for Nationalist interests in Scotland and elsewhere which themselves also tend to lean towards the centre right Neoliberal European ideals then I fear even that will continue to be a lost cause.
Since 2010 we haven’t had a sniff of an opposing view or approach in Westminster.
Corbyn an actual Socialist and a somewhat break from the norm in “New Labour” was attacked from all quarters as he posed a threat to the current Political Hegemony.
Even from within his own Party where Tory Reds were aghast at the thought of Labour coming from its traditional standpoint once again as serious opposition.
The true extent of the Blairite/Thatcherite infestation meant he was in effect on a hiding to nothing.
Neither will we whilst SNP voting Socialists continue to vote for a Party who will not deliver what most want.
They like Labour under Blair and Brown have dressed Neloiberalism up in different clothes ( no red tie this time just a see you Jimmy Bunnet and a Biscuit Tin Scotland lid with Ues slapped on the cover) to present one thing which in reality is simply much more of the same but with a Highland Coo chewing the B/S.
Cheap Labour (not to be confused with actual Labour) will continue to be brought in,Rich Corporations will continue to dodge their dues and ultimately Tax Payers will pick up the tab.
Meanwhile the Privatisation of the NHS will draw closer and closer as they present it as a broken ,unfixable and expensive luxury.
Just like all those other Industries that were sold off and continue to be plundered by the Corporations that bought them.
At our expense.
That’s not pish btw that’s what happened and will continue to happen unless you wake up to what is going on,
Thatcherism was Neoliberalism at our National level.
Neoliberalism continues to run and control the EU.
Take one look at Maggie Von Tampon and listen to her rhetoric if you need clarification on that.
There is no other option in Europe,there is no plan B or Socialist agenda.
It’s a precession of one Neoliberal stooge after another.
Of course you can choose to ignore all of the above amd file it under “pish” but it’s all there in plain view if you care to avert your eyes from the usual stuff you read and actually look at what has happened from the years of Thatcherism and continues to happen post Brexit in London ,Hollyrood and Brussels.
Either way you have a nice day all the same.
Im sorry if I was flippant with you as you are obviously well read in politics.
I still don’t believe you can compare Thatcherism to EU politics. That is taking your argument to the extreme.
I remember Thatcher’s modus operandi and what she did to the working classes in the UK from schoolchildren to miners and steelworkers. I remember her assaults on civil rights in the north of Ireland and her war crimes in the Falklands to save her political skin.
EU politicians are models of restraint in comparison.
If Brexit has put a brake in the EUs’ neo-liberal assault on this continent, then you may turn out to be the only honest person I have heard who has found any kind of benefit, no matter how obscure, on this current political and economic insanity.
It is an ill wind that blows no one any good and all that, so, hopefully this UK madness will awaken Scotland to the urgent requirement to GTF out of Dodge.
I believe Scotland’s very existence is in real peril at this moment in time.
With Scotland’s future back in the hands of it’s people, we will see where it takes us.
Your predictions for a future in the EU look dire when viewed from a political perspective.
I prefer a more scientific approach and as Niels Bohr, the Danish physicist observed, ‘Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future.’
Have a good day yourself.
If you would like to look deeper into Neoliberal Economic and why it is a flawed approach and therefore a certainty another crash will come then may I suggest that you go have a look into the work of Professor Steve Keen who was one of a few Economists who predicted the 2008 crash well before it happened.
Thatcherism and the EU’s approach to Governance come from the same place.
HH
Ah, people are silencing opposing views says the guy who complains to Phil for approving my comment!
And why so secretive about your service to her Madge? It is an article about swearing an oath of allegiance after all – something you’ll know all about as a proud ex-serviceman.
I raised the point of you coming on here and divulging something about myself that has absolutely no relevance to the debate.
I was going to leave it at that and not turn it into a tit for tat school playground style argument like you tend to attempt to have on the other site you frequent and I no longer do.
I’ve moved on from that and it’s about time you did too.
However since you are here and evidently not letting it drop perhaps I might enlighten anyone who is remotely interested in the fact that you took it upon yourself to go straight back to that site and bad mouth me in there like the pathetic wee troll that you are.
My past life (a very long time ago ) as an ex Soldier has nothing to do with you or anyone else for that matter other than when I decide to talk about it.
Which I hadn’t because it is no longer relevant.
You came in here to raise the post for one reason and one reason only and my only surprise is the guy who runs this site decided to let that go knowing fine well there are some posters in here who regardless of circumstance would take exception to it.
I have no compulsion whatsoever to discuss this any further with you.
In here or anywhere else else for that matter.
I left the playground over 40 year ago perhaps it is about time you did too.
Ps My allegiance was to my family and Country of birth and I served both honourably regardless of what you think about that.
Apologies in advance and if you want me to remove my opinions from this site just Email me Phil.
It’s not me who’s calling for people to be moderated off the site because I don’t like what they say but you carry on playing the martyr, you sanctimonious hypocrite. Are you seriously saying your past as a serving soldier has no relevance to an article about swearing allegiance to the British crown? But, hey, I’m glad you’ve found another home to pollute with your xenophobic unionism, just make sure you don’t flounce off the site in a huff this time – after all you’ve got form for that as well.
EU membership was a central issue in the 2014 debate. Since Brexit, EU commissioners have made it clear that Scotland’s application to rejoin would be viewed favourably. We also have a better recent record on immigration and, like all of the West, desperately need inward migration to swell a depleted ageing workforce. Another major issue was the currency….perhaps the euro is the way forward?
HH
Phil, we are well aware of the shortcomings of the SNP. There are too many neoliberal conservatives within it’s ranks, who believe that Governments need to raise taxes before it can spend, despite the current bunch of charlatans in Westminster lining the pockets of their chums with QE fuelled billions, proving conclusively that a sovereign state with its own currency can NEVER run out of money.
The Irish should not lecture any other nation on how to achieve independence. Your brave freedom fighters left the legacy of a sordid border and a “Free State” run by fascist supporting religious zealots. The Republic of Ireland only became a decent functioning state when it joined the EU, or the EEC as it was in 1973.
The UK is in a far weaker position now than it was in the early 1920s, as you so often accurately point out, and gunboat diplomacy is not so easy to conduct. Nevertheless, the current British state will deploy its tried and tested divide and rule tactics to thwart Scottish independence.
I agree that Indy supporting candidates at the next General Election should declare they will not take their seats (or salaries) nor will they swear allegiance to the Crown, if Indyrev2 is not happening by then. After all, the Scottish electorate has voted for another referendum, and Douglas Ross conceded this during the last GE campaign. “A vote for the SNP is a vote for another referendum.”
The situation re China is worrying, and the hawks in Washington and London would love a wee war with China to deflect voters from their disastrous mismanagement. However, as much as Beijing may be ramping up the rhetoric, the Chinese Govt will not start a war. There may well be a couple of incidents, but no full scale conflict. Even our disaster capitalists daren’t be so stupid.
There will be another referendum before the end of 2023, and I hope you will give the Indy cause your full support.
I think Duncan is confused and needs to do more reading.
The EU is an actual trading union. The individual members retain their own seats at the UN and are in charge of their own armies, economies, legal systems, health systems etc. They are not ‘ruled’ by Brussels except that they must stay within certain trading standards if they wish to remain within the union. This arrangement benefits all member states.
The UK is clearly not a union of equal members as the court rulings Phil refers to clearly indicates.
Phil, 100 years ago, only one city on these islands had any real power. Irelands people wanted out and achieved their freedom at a huge cost in Irish blood.
It is to Scotland’s eternal shame that she ‘shit her pants’ in 2014 when the chance to exit the UK presented itself.
There may be another chance but it will be a last chance and we had better start acting like that!
I think Duncan is not only confused, obsessed by EU and completely missing point of independence.
Scotland has not voted Tory since 1950’s but gets Tory government imposed on it because it is part of UK.
Scotland voted to Remain in EU but was taken out because it was part of UK. Scotland is resource and energy rich but has high levels of poverty primarily because it is part of UK governance.
While I would personally would prefer Scotland to be a social democratic republic (similar to Scandinavian) possibly in EU I am happy that is to be decided by all Scottish residents after Independence and not imposed by a an increasingly isolated Westminster government,
This will not affect the great friendships I have with people elsewhere in Uk at present but I fear the current UK government will be hostile as evidenced by their actions over NI protocol. We may need the assistance of EU and others to counter this potential hostility and buffer any short term transitional economic impact of independence in my opinion.
I fear there may be other more pressing reasons for delaying/abandoning the idea of Indy Ref 2, and these reasons are of the geo-political kind. It is now becoming increasingly clear that the ‘collective West’ is determined to provoke a conflict with China over the status of Taiwan. For anyone not familiar with the history of Taiwan, it is an integral part of China, and explicitly recognised as such under International Law. Even the US recognises the ‘One China’ policy—-or at least it had done until Obama’s ‘pivot to Asia’ which is a euphemism for conflict with China.
And now I fear I have to refer to something called the Thucydides Trap, which posits that as one empire rises (Sparta in Thucydides’s time) and another goes into decline (Athens in Thucydides time) there is bound to be war between them.
For Sparta, see China, and for Athens see the US. Crazed Neo-Con Paul Wolfowitz, of the Dubya Bush administration put it succinctly when he said the US should never tolerate a rival that threatens to overtake it in either the military or economic sphere—–and that Wolfowitz doctrine still holds good today. China’s military strength is infinitesimal when compared to the US’s , but not its economy, which does indeed threaten to surpass that of the US, thus springing the Thucydides Trap.
And the evidence for this is overwhelming. NATO vessels are in danger of colliding with each other in the South China Sea, there are so many of them operating there—we have an aircraft carrier and a couple of patrol boats in the region. But while sailing up and down the South China Sea does piss off the Chinese it does not provide a decent casus belli. Trying to detach Taiwan from China-and this is the goal as it would provide the West with an unsinkable ( and nuclear armed)aircraft carrier a hundred miles or so of the Chinese mainland (Cuba anyone?), is another matter. That is a Chinese red line.
What the West is trying to do is goad China into ‘invading’ Taiwan (it would be like us ‘invading’ the Hebrides, as, how can you invade your own country?) in the hope that it would garner public opinion in the West in support of a conflict. Just as was done with WMD’S, Kuwaiti babies being ripped from incubators by Iraqi soldiers in the first Gulf War (never happened) The Gulf Of Tonkin Incident which led to the Vietnam War (never happened) Saddam purchasing Yellowcake from Niger in support of his nuclear programme (never happened) the chemical attacks by the Assad regime o its own people in Syria (never happened).
So what has all this got to do with Indy Ref 2? Well, despite being told a proven pack of lies, the peoples of the West continue to fall for the latest one to surface—-maybe one like a country, China, invading itself. It quite simply never fails, which is why the political elites continue to invent them. So, if China does invade itself, and that looks increasingly likely, and if we, the people are suitably outraged by this ‘aggression’ the Thucydides Trap will be well and truly sprung. And if the UK, as is its wont, does the bidding of its US masters, does anyone seriously think that Scotland won’t rally to the colours? And who, in that climate, would dare to suggest secession? Such an idea would be deemed as nothing less than treasonous—–perhaps even a capital offence.
It is now imperative that we have a socialist Republic unfortunately the SNP govt do not want to go down that road and seem quite happy to bow to this obscene relic from the dark ages. In my opinion if the SNP are really serious about independence why are they wasting their time in Westminster, come home and have a referendum or are they worried about losing their high incomes that some Tories feel they are unable to live on.
Throughout history lots of principled people took the oath to that dysfunctional family. Roger Casement went further and ‘bent the knee’ to have his knighthood.
Does that make all those people monarchists? Clearly not.
Sometimes a bitter pill is medicine that needs to be taken to get yourself to a better place.
Independence first..then we can sort out the ‘head of state’s side of things.
Casement was not an Irish Republican at that point in his life.
It was his service to the Crown that made him one.
James Connolly was another I believe.
Sometimes you have to take part in something that is wrong to know what’s right.
Having been lucky enough to to quite a bit of world travel whilst working, i would consider myself quite world savvy. I see nothing wrong with several nations being under one flag – does that make me a unionist? Probably, but as a proud Scot i see more advantages than disadvantages being part of the UK than outside it. The Scots have voted to remain – lets move on.
Thats my last ever post on politics on this forum!!
Scots may have voted to remain in the UK in the past but that does not rule out minds being changed since circumstances have changed.
I think your talking about brexit there.
I voted for independence in 2014. When that never happened and we had the vote to leave Europe, I voted to leave. I saw this ad the best way to get independence and a united Ireland.
After brexit, with the trouble with the Irish border. I think that’s what will be used as the argument to vote NO in the next independence referendum. Most of our trade is with England, so it could cause all sort of problem if we rejoin the EU if we left the union.
I would still vote YES
So in your extensive worldwide travels, can you point me to where several other nations are under one flag. And then if you can also explain the benefits of such.
Your “quite world savvy” view on this might be a pivotal moment on us uneducated plebs.
Thanks
At the moment as a so called proud Scot do you not recognise that Scotland is not a nation. If you accept the Westminster Parliament as the government of the UK then Scotland is just a region within the island of Britain, ruled by the London Parliament. The nations of the World unite under one flag which is the UN flag. Scotland is not a nation and the majority of Scots to their shame voted not to become a nation in 2014.
Someday I hope that the people of Scotland get another chance to become a Nation once again, as it was for around 700 years before the sellout of 1707. What Scotland gains these days as a region of the UK is a mystery to me. The past few months has shown what a mistake leaving the EU has been, road haulage, hospitality and agriculture along with numerous small business’s suffering badly from the vote to leave .This was a decision the Scots voted against but because we weren’t a sovereign nation we were dragged out of the EU. I would like to be nation like Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Belgium and other similar sized nations within the EU.
Phil it’s not that long ago that people were marching in Scotland to support Ireland’s fight for independence. There are supporters here of a united Ireland just as there are supporters of an independent Scotland. In my own case an independent Socialist Scotland. It’s time to support our movement for independence and I write this from Ayrshire. Slainte, Jim
It is a regional assembly given certain powers by the UK, it’s the way it has to be as long as Scotland is part of the UK.
I don’t have a problem with that, I don’t see much upside or downside with independence.
I might be persuaded if an independent Scotland had it’s own currency or if accepted the euro if it were allowed to join.
To go for independence while keeping the pound is a sham , England will still hold the purse strings.
What and become an outpost on the fringes of Europe for the Empire of Hannover and Brussels just like Ireland?
What would be the sense in taking back control from one unelected overseer in London only to hand it to another unelected overseer in Brussels?
I just don’t get the logic behind that.
An independent Scotland would vote on EU membership. It’s called democracy.Remember 62% voted to remain in EU innScotland in 2016. Appreciate you don’t want to be in EU but I am happy to go with what majority of my fellow Scots want.
Here’s the rub though, you and I did not vote as Scots no we voted as citizens of the United Kingdom and were only citizens of the EU as citizens of the United Kingdom.
The fact you live in one area as a Scot and me another had nothing to do with your vote.
That aside you appear to have misunderstood my point and my point being why would someone vote to leave the United Kingdom citing being ruled by a Parliament in England that they never voted for to go then and vote to join another Union that’s controlled by an unelected Government they never voted for either?
Further to that why would 60% of Scots vote for a European Union that is run and controlled by one single approach?
That approach being Thatcherism ie Neoliberalism ?
Come to think of it why would any Irishman vote for a lifetime of Thatcherism?
I find it very confusing.
Unless of course the real reason is you would rather be ruled by European Thatcherite’s than the English.
Which then leads to the question have 60% of Scots abandoned their Socialist roots in favour of Capitalist Imperialism?
Some Capitalist Imperialism now expanding its control 👇🏼(In the interest of safety of its member states of course 😉👍🏼)
https://frontex.europa.eu/
Oh look someone’s in for a right little windfall in the Private Security Sector in Europe…
https://www.worldfinance.com/featured/the-true-cost-of-the-eus-border-security-boom
Who’s paying for that little lot eh?
Ill give you a clue the same people who are going to have to pay the current €1.3 Trillion in Loans to Central Bank that have been run up in the past 18 months.
Time you woke up and started smelling the Lavazza
“Thirty years after celebrating the fall of the Berlin Wall, Europe has gone on a wall-building spree. In its next budget cycle (2021-27), the EU plans to spend €34.9bn ($38.4bn) on border security, to help manage the tens of thousands of migrants trying to enter the region every year…”
Soooo happy enough to flood our localised Economies with cheap MIGRATING EUROPEAN LABOUR from the poorer states over 20 years but not so happy to let actual DESPERATE MIGRANTS into Europe for fear it will destabilise their Economic plans?
€35Bn ooft someone’s making a killing in the Private sector eh 🤷🏻♂️
Lavazza anyone ☕️
If and when we become independent we can then vote as to whether we can be a member of EU or not. We can also vote as to what type of government we want Socialist/Social Democratic/Liberal etc. Your view will count as much as mine and every other Scottish resident. We will not have Scotland’s views ignored as at present by UK government.
As Scots, at the time of the Indyref, we were members of the EU. Whatever the outcome of that vote we would have remained citizens of the EU. There is no mechanism for taking citizenship away from an individual. To remove a country, unless a member country votes as the UK did to leave, is a long and complicated process.
No one in that referendum was voting on EU membership. The vote was on UK membership.
Remember the BIG Westminster lie? The ONLY way Scotland can retain EU membership is by REMAINING part of the UK.
Well! That fair worked out, didn’t it?
@Charger That wasn’t a lie that was an actual fact.
Scots were only members of the EU by virtue of the fact we were like every other resident citizens of the United Kingdom.
So had Scots voted to leave the United Kingdom in the Independence Referendum in 2014 (two years prior to the Vote for THE UNITED KINGDOM to leave the EU) then Scotland would have been forced to apply to join the EU as a non Member State now no longer part of the U.K.
The fact Cameron was naive enough to float the question of Brexit after the Independence question had been answered (fully believing it would never happen ) had absolutely no bearing on the vite for Independence.
As the question hadn’t been raised at that point.
The only reason he floated the idea of Independence was simple:
By doing so he more or less sunk the Labour stranglehold in Scotland by creating a wound that still hasn’t healed.
Divide and conquer oldest trick in the book.
By diminishing the Labour vote in Scotland he more or less guaranteed a Tory Government for years to come.
The question of Europe was then put forward safe in the knowledge Labour was doomed and that it went beyond Party Politics to personal choice.
Hence why you had Tories,Socialists,Liberals and Nationalist voters going either way.
No one ,absolutely no one in Politics believed the United Kingdom would vote for Brexit.
More fool them because a great many people in this Country can see beyond the B/S.
Ps I see Poland is now asking the similar questions on EU with EU Laws now at odds with Polish Laws.
There may be trouble ahead of the EU try strong arm Poland.
As Phil would say watch this space 😉and of course follow the money ( especially that €1.3 Trillion in Loans and the €35bn going to the private Sector involved in the EU’s new Border Force).