According to my diary and Twitter, this is St Andrew’s day.
Consequently, it should be a day for a global celebration of Scotland and Scottishness.
If that’s your thing then go for it.
The country of my birth continues to baffle me and I never see myself relocating back there.
It appears to have a massive lack of self-confidence allied to swaggering hubris.
When it comes to Fair Caledonia I am well placed to give you an ethnographic snapshot dear reader.
I’m the intimate outsider.
An Irishman from Scotland.
I was at the count centre in September 2014 when Scotland The Brave shat it.
This was a bigger failure of collective will than the regular calamities that befall the Scottish soccer team.
While the polling stations were open on September 18th 2014 the Scottish people were sovereign.
That is, they had national self-determination.
What others had to brutally fight the British for was there on a plate, peacefully offered to them.
They refused.
I noted at the time that the independence being offered to the Scots that day seemed to me to be rather anaemic.
They would still have the same hereditary head of state and the Pound Sterling.
Still, it was undeniably statehood.
As the votes from various part of Fair Caledonia were being announced it was clear that the Brits were better together.
I left Ingliston that morning, sleep-starved and convinced that Scotland was different from other places.
Consequently, the nation that provided the middle management of the British Empire decided that it wanted to remain within the polity that had ruled the planet during the 19th century.
In Shashi Tharoor’s magisterial work “Inglorious Empire. What the British Did to India” he gives the Scots a special mention at the end of the first eye-opening chapter.
It is called “the looting of India”.
You will note that Tharoor points out that the Scots had attempted colonization on their own but had been “singularly unsuccessful”.
Of course, breaking away from the orbit of Westminster had historically usually required more than a tick on a ballot paper.
This is Frongoch POW camp in Wales 1916.
My grandmother’s brother Michael is in there somewhere.
You will note the fetching outfits worn by the British soldiers guarding the Irish rebels.
I believe they are modelling the British Empire’s autumn collection.
Michael Derrig of Westport County Mayo was incarcerated in Frongoch with this young fella from Clonakilty West Cork.
When the two of them got back to Ireland they had to do more than cast a vote to be free of the Grand Old Dame Britannia.
That project remains a work in progress, but we are nearly there.
I told a French colleague in Brussels who was covering the Brexit negotiations over the past couple of years to put the kettle on.
I reminded him that it takes a long time for the Brits to leave anywhere!
However, I’m sure that my three Gaeilgóirí will see Irish re-unification it during their time on the planet.
More and more people here now realise it is time to Think32.
Ironically, the only identifiable group here in Ireland who are hostile to the idea of Scottish independence actually culturally identify as having a Caledonian heritage.
The Ulsturr Skatch were seen burning Yes Scotland flags on their 11th nigh Bone Fires.
Now diaspora communities are usually fully in favour of the independence of the homeland.
They’re an interesting people in Norn Iron, they even have their own language…
Now there is a genuine Scottish diaspora within the Anglosphere, especially in Canada.
The Gaels of Cape Breton are a cultural treasure to the world.
This gem has been on my bookshelf for thirty years.
It opens a precious window onto Scotland before Britain.
MacNeil’s people arrived across the Atlantic before Alba was demoralised and Balmoralised
Those exiled Scots are the product of an ethnic cleansing that was sanctioned and executed by fellow Scots.
At the height of the British imperium, the “North Britons” decided that those who spoke “the Irish tongue” had to make way for sheep.
Perhaps that is why there was never a Tartan equivalent of Noraid.
The Scotland of the 1950s that I was born in had several organising principles.
One of them was to suppress the Irishness of my community.
According to First Minister Sturgeon that is all now a thing of the past, although she has never publicly admitted that it was ever extant in Fair Caledonia.
If she is serious about being the leader of a truly multi-cultural Scotland then there is at least one colleague she should have a word with.
If I had kept my brood in Scotland then this champion of the downtrodden would be calling them “plastic”.
Moreover, she can do that with zero cost to her public reputation.
In the immediate aftermath of the referendum result in 2014, I wrote a stage play about the referendum campaign and what it had thrown up for me.
I doubt that anyone who attended a performance of Hame would conclude that the playwright wanted the United Kingdom to cohere.
You can read Joyce McMillan’s review of Hame here.
The play, in part, pointed to the existence of what the losing side in the referendum represented.
The other Scotland, the cradle of radical intellectualism and a collectivist humanitarian spirit.
In other words, the country that Scotland could become.
Or, as Joyce stated in her review:
“…two young Glasgow women from different traditions glimpsing the chance of a new Scotland…”
Then in the centenary year of Éirí Amach na Cásca some determined revolutionaries struck a blow against the United Kingdom.
These insurgents were English and they also had gallant allies in Europe-Russian ones…
Of course, Brexit is English nationalism’s Terrible Beauty.
Consequently, it has changed the geopolitics of these islands, especially if it actually happens and the UK leaves the European Union next year.
That might ultimately lead to Scotland taking her place among the nations of the world.
If they manage to do that then they have this Irishman’s best wishes, although some folk in the Northeast of my country will be shattered by it.
For the avoidance of doubt, I’m sure that Saint Andrew was a very fine fella.
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When Scotland finally becomes independent none of us will be reminiscing about the good old days when our supporters used to lob live grenades into trucks full of human beings and then parade past the still warm and mangled corpses.
I don’t agree with all of that but it is a well constructed response Gabriel.
I’m more concerned about the death of Socialism in the UK than I ever will be about the Jingoistic nonsense spouted both sides of every Border.
You are only Scots,Irish,Welsh or English because you were born in a period of history that says it so.
Prior to that you were most probably Gael ,Pict ,Dane etc etc etc.
All of this of course is designed in order to take your eyes and mind off of the real issues.
Equality and a a fair Society for ALL should be all of our goals and not what the man decides for us.
Start taking Control back folks. vote Corbyn and get these Charlatans to fcuk away from the controls and then PERHAPS we can have a rational debate about how we can mend what has already been broken or destroyed these past few decades.
Independence isn’t the answer to Scotland’s problems.
Unity and equality are.
I voted “no” in the referendum and would do so again.
I like being Scottish and British, I think Scotland does well out of the UK.
The SNP position is fundamentally illogical – any negative issue they identify with Scotland being part of the UK would surely be magnified several fold, with a so-called “independent” Scotland being in the larger EU.
Really they just want to play at Independence. The height of their ambition is for Nicola Sturgeon to stand at the very back of a photo of “Europe’s leaders”, next to Leo Varadkar.
The EU has been good for Ireland financially, but – in my opinion – the Irish have sold their soul for european money. Brussels is no better an Overlord than London.
I think the Holyrood Parliament -a very unimpressive and largely “single issue” body – has more power and autonomy in the UK, than does the Dail in the EU. This situation will become more stark after Brexit, leaving the SNP independence pitch being based on giving up significant powers to Brussels. Of course, idiots would still vote for that.
Westminster does not need to sanction Holyrood Budgets, like Brussels give its assent to Irish Budgets after checking it is acceptable.
Westminster does not demand re-runs of internal Scottish elections, if it doesn’t like the result: it does not say: “Sorry, jock, you voted for the wrong thing – try again”. To date, Brussels has sent Paddy back to the polls twice, after he voted for the wrong thing.
The traditional faith of ireland, which sustained it over centuries of English, Scottish and later British persecution, has been swept away and replaced with hollow secular values. Now Ireland is just A.N.Other small secular nation of no particular note (much like post-protestant Scotland).
Moreso than other nations in the British Isles, (including my own), I had always held the Irish to be a very deep, reflective and fundamentally decent people – but I struggle to see that in them now, following the jubilant “street party” scenes after they voted for abortion. That was really obnoxious.
These few example are, I feel, indicative of the hollowing out of Ireland, its values and its hard won independence. I do not think this is what the men in the GPO were fighting for.
Yes, the British Empire had a lot of negative sides – like all Imperialism. But it had some good sides too, even if improvements to health and literacy were hardly the motivation for Empire. No-one could deny what an awe-inspiring achievement it was. Scotland – and Ireland – were part of that, and so both have their share of guilt and of glory. (I prefer to dwell on the glory, myself).
I genuinely believe, despite the dominance of “woke” snowflakes today, that future generations will speak of the British and their Empire, in the same way we reverently speak of the Romans and their Empire today.
I agree with you about the disgusting street party after Ireland had voted to allow the murder of the unborn for ideological reasons. It was appalling.
The rest of your comment is an admixture of Farage-like stupidity and BoJo-like ignorance. Ireland is a full partner in the EU. Dublin is a European capital. Like every other Taoiseach, Varadker, for whom I have little time, has no need to stand in the back row. Both times we “were sent back” to vote again, the wording of the relevant treaties was changed to reflect Ireland’s concerns. As for “reverence for the Roman Empire,” dear Jesus!
Scotland may never have been colonised in the way England eventually had to colonise Ireland for religious reasons and out of fear, but the mindset of the colonised is firmly entrenched in Scotland when, alone of all peoples in the world, Scots feel incapable of ruling themselves.
An extraordinary geological windfall could have made you another Norway. But you were content to be a piglet suckling on England’s hind tit while Thatcher used your money to fund the destruction of your manufacturing. But hang in there. BoJo will take care of you.
The EU is a Neliberal Construct we have all been suckling on the teat of Thatcherism meanwhile.
Thankfully not for much longer.
Ireland is a minor EU nation with no substantive influence in a bloc which is run to suit German and French interests.
Domestically, its Government is fond of rolling out referendums to make the people feel powerful and independent, but these are chiefly distractions to hide the fact that the Dublin Government ultimately takes orders from Brussels.
The EU is held up as a great champion of individual rights, the real aim of the bloc is to suit business with the much vaunted “freedom of movement” really just a means of shuttling cheap labour around as needed.
I prefer simple, straight forward democracy, where the outcome of the vote is what happens. I think the EU is a major anti-democratic force. Look how they have tried to undermine the Brexit vote, using Varadkar as a pawn.
You may comfort yourself that words on some paper were changed when Ireland was told to vote again. But it very much looks to me that Irish democracy is just a facade beyond selecting the people who will implement what Brussels dictates. If its just a question of wording, would it not be better to get that right before voting?
Beyond the two “try again” Irish votes, the Brussels has quite the track record across Europe of ignoring or re-running election outcomes it dislikes. Its an altogether more subtle – and so more sinister – type of oppression than is shooting into the crowd at a Gaelic football match. If folk are shooting at you, at least you know unambiguously where you stand.
And of course it is the unelected – and, before Brexit, largely faceless – EU Commission which holds the power, not the elected MEPs. And who ever voted to create the EU? The British got a vote to join the EEC, a rich man’s club, but the EU is a very different animal to that.
Of course I did not dispute Dublin’s status as a Capital city, even if I do think Cork would be a better one (much as Glasgow would be better than Edinburgh). Everybody hates the Dubs, as the saying goes 😉
Voting for the union was not Scotland saying that we don’t feel we can rule ourselves, its like we like to do it as part of a Union which is (I believe) greater than the sum of its parts. I think history bears that out.
And again, I content Holyrood has more autonomy than the Dail, moreso after Brexit Scotland would be in uproar at the suggestion that Westminster should check and approve Holyrood budgets, or that Westminster can force a re-run of an internal Scottish vote. Even unionists like me would reject that, as it would mean Holyrood was a joke (more than it already is). Yet, the Irish accept this with Brussels in place of Westminster.
I do not think there is a healthy, balanced view of the EU in Ireland. There is almost uniform great enthusiasm for it, no spread of opinion, which is pretty weird and slightly creepy.
Yes, in another history, Scotland could have had an oil fund like Norway. But as it turns out, Scotland was in the UK and so it was UK oil. The UK is so much more than Norway. Does Norway have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council and a permanent UN veto? Is Norway a G8 nation? is Norway a Nuclear armed power? How many aircraft carriers does Norway have?
An oil fund is nice, but it doesn’t count for much on the global stage. These considerations all come down to – do you want to shape the world, or be shaped by it? The UK helps shape the world, even today. And these considerations were, I believe, also important in the Scottish Independence Referendum. I didn’t care to go from being a citizen of a pre-eminent global nation, to a citizen of a minor regional nation, which could not even state what currency it would use (and still can’t).
Yet Scotland still has done well from Oil, benefiting from many well paid jobs over decades.
Thatcher didn’t destroy our manufacturing. Global change did. Even if she had not overcome the miners, would we still be mad keen on “King Coal” today? What would Greta Thunberg say about that? Thatcher saw change coming and reacted to take advantage of it. Change is never popular, especially when it threatens jobs. There is more change soon for Scotland as the North Sea dries up in the coming decades.
As for the Romans, i think they are viewed pretty positively today. Their straight roads, impressive military and effective governance undoubtedly boosted the development of early Europe.
On the morn of Sept 19th 2014, I sat bleary eyed in front of my tv scarcely able to comprehend that my country had voted to remain tied to England and it’s supposed purse strings. England has been fleecing Scotland just as it stole from India. All this nonsense about a deficit is simply England running up debt and attributing to us, that money almost exclusively being spent in and around London.
Had the vote been limited to Scottish nationals only, Yes would have won. Had the vote been limited to under 55 voters, Yes would have won. The demographic that swung it to NAW, was the elderly. That fellow Celtic supporters voted NO alongside the Orange Order devotees, saddened me further.
I can appreciate they may come from a staunchly (please don’t ever be staunch) Labourite family but didn’t Labour standing cheek by jowl with the Tories not spark something? Two cheeks of the same ass spouting lies about my country. Surely the events on Sept 19th must have swung my fellow Celts to Yes? Young girl with a saltire being told by two Rangers fans to stick her flag up her ass, concentrated attacks from three sides of George Square on a peaceful group of Yes supporters and saltires being burned. Do Celts really want to be associated with Orange Order, Rangers fans. National Front, etc etc. These groups all came out on the side of NAW. Please vote in the interests of Scotland and not Westminster. If you really want to vote Labour, you can do so in the first election after independence.
Just think how much a Yes vote would upset the Unionists, no more Butcher’s Apron. That’s got to resonate.
I you think we can’t afford it, hasn’t Corbyn announced he’ll tax the oil companies to the tune of £100 billion? That would be Scottish oil. If you want to read up on the duplicitous nature of Westminster with regards to Scottish oil, please read the McCrone Report which goes into detail about how to steal this oil from under our noses.
Another bonus is that we also get rid of Trident. I know Labour and the Tories have shouted about thousands of jobs being lost but the real number is 450. That 450 will still be required to set up the Scottish Naval Force that will be set up at Faslane and Coulport so no-one need lose their job.
There are significantly more than 450 jobs based at the Faslane naval base and no doubt many multiple times that number in local businesses which thrive because of its presence.
MOD bases are always a significant economic boost to the local area. Look at the panic when the RAF said they were leaving Leuchars in Fife. There was a mad rush to convert it into an Army base instead, to prevent the backside falling out of the local economy.
And talking of job losses, don’t forget the many skilled jobs which would be lost on the upper Clyde and at Rosyth, ship building and engineering largely reliant on contracts for the Royal Navy.
Phil, the Independence question in Scotland has and will rage for years. What is Independence?
A fully Sovereign nation standing alone!
The irony is that your Country gallantly fought for Independence from the supposed GB monster only to hand over all Sovereignty to the soon to be EU empire.
No member of the EU is a Sovereign Independent nation, this question weighs heavily on many Scots and is the major reason why the Independence question will rage on.
Ireland is not an Independent country, we have to decide whether Scotland will be!
I have read your work for years ,I have enjoyed your books but Phil W.T.F you can surely do better than this.I am from Irish descent (Moville/Mageherafelt) I am a Catholic,a season ticket holder at Parkhead but Dear God I take exception to your views.I voted no in the independence referendum not because of any bowel movements but a matter of choice.We must live for the future and not dwell in the past.
As far as I’m aware the UK has ignored the UN ruling that the sovereignty of the Chagos Islands should be returned to Mauritius.
It would seem that the multi million deal to lease a runway on one of the islands to the USA by the the UK brings no benefits to the islanders themselves. That will be the few that are left after the majority were forceably removed by the Brits.
The more things change…………….
It is a shameful episode.
If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain. England would still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs. ##Shan Van Vocht (socialist newspaper) January, 1897. Reprinted in P. Beresford Ellis (ed.), “James Connolly – Selected Writings”, p. 124.
Mindful of that, the opportunity to vote yes, to cement the role of the Queen as our head of state, create an enhanced status for the Church of Scotland, rely on the pound sterling as our currency benchmark while we would witness an entrenchment of the capitalist system (in the EU or out of it) meant the vote was hardly a vote for independence. It was a vote for the continuation of capitalism under a new area management team.
“Shat it” is just pejorative nonsense. Many on the left rejected it because what would follow as we had observed in Ireland was almost a century of domination by the Church, atavistic social mores and economic stagnation from the conservative political policies of self reliance and the mantra of the small state..
Getting the Saltire flying above “the Castle” was not to be an end in itself. Bringing about an absolute reconstruction of society for the benefit of all was not in our grasp and would not be on offer, win, lose or draw in the indyref.
Beyond that, have all you wish for you and yours.
Muggy, Phil is 100 per cent correct. The ‘NO’ brigade shat it…end of. Pro-Brit bastards every one of them.
The Brit left are, and always will be, an utter disgrace when it comes to freedom for the Celtic nations. Just look at who they aligned themselves with in the ‘Better together’ campaign. Such lovely chaps like:
1. The Orange Order.
2. The UVF/UDA
3. The EDL, BNP and others on the far-right lunatic fringe.
Those who voted ‘NO’ chose to align themselves with these Loyalist bastards. Shame on them for that.
I totally get what you are saying about a real change of how the country is governed. I certainly would not want torn-faced Nichola and greetin’-faced Miss Black to run this county. What those members of the so-called Scottish Labour Party could not get into their thick heads however, is that a left of centre democratic party would be the natural ruling party in any independent Scotland….if only they were not so cravenly LOYAL to their imperial masters in London. To have any real impact though, any such party would have to be REPUBLICAN and SECULAR in nature, whilst also allowing total freedom for each individual to express their faith, without fear of being harassed or attacked by bigoted elements.
On a cheerier note, great result today. French Eddy or the Bhoy Christie to lead the line against Huns2? Nice problem to have, eh. Given that The Huns have a real toughie on Wednesday, and will have one eye on their European game, we should go for it from the word do. Make them lose their cool, put the pressure on big time, and they may just end the game with 9 men…or less. Hail Hail
The SNP for all their faults are the closest thing there is to a Socialist party in the UK. Labour stopped being a Socialist party the day they started electing Public School boys as their leaders. Blair took Labour further right than Thatcher would have dared to go.
NO church would rule in Scotland. The RC’s don’t have the power and are struggling against the tide to hold on to their own schools. Church of Scotland are hemorrhaging members.
So many people, particularly elderly people, simply did NOT understand what they were voting for in he independence referendum. They actually believed it was the UK or the SNP. They actually believed that independence meant Scotland would be by the SNP IN PERPETUITY.
That last sentence should have been ruled by.
Well, you see it through your own eyes. I regarded the choices under consideration were in essence to wander into wilderness or to sink into the swamp. I do not carry a badge for the Labour Party then or now, what I am saying is that there are dark elements of nationalism and I’m in no rush to embrace them. I advocate a future in which an independent Scotland is a republic and has a Government that reflects the informed wishes of the electorate, determined by a process that’s not as hostile to minorities as first past the post. Will I see it in my lifetime, probably not.
You reference the rag-bag of unsavoury allies that tilted the result in favour of no.For better or worse their opinion and vote is no more or no less valid than mine. In a democracy you have to accept that many disagreeable opinions can be held and yet society can rub along. You cannot determine your political objectives on the basis of “working it up” those you despise.That is corrosive and simply consolidates divisions within society. The sad fact of life that shines out is that poor people often vote for the enemies of poor people.I conclude that no-one “shat it” in the indyref, The package of measures that were wrapped up in the notion of voting yes was neither sensible nor desirable. It’s a sick joke to say that “we” would keep the Queen as head of state, the Bank of England determining our financial future, carry on using the pound and see the Church of Scotland given a more prominent role in the society deemed to be an independent Scotland.
All of that was back then, if there is another indyref in the coming years I sense the outcome will be different.
Muggy, remember this. There is the nationalism of the imperialist…British nationalism, Soviet nationalism, USA imperialism in Latin America. Then there is the nationalism of the oppressed…Irish Nationalism, Palestinian nationalism and Catalonian nationalism for example. The first lot are abhorant. The second can lead to successful revolution. Hail Hail
You may think I am nit-picking ….but Catalonia is far from being oppressed. The drive for independence stems from it being the wealthiest of the Regions and a malcontented view that it is highly taxed to transfer wealth to the poorer areas. Let’s not get starry eyed about people whose prime motivation is selfishness. That said if Catalonia seceded from Spain, it would have to leave the EU…its’ affluence based on tourism might not remain as it is. It seems to be the case though that most Nationalists accept that gaining independence is a step forward and two steps back economically until they can adjust to the new environment.
This discussion flows from a consideration of Ireland. Yes, Ireland stands proud in Europe today as a good going economically viable nation. That was hardly true until they subordinated their isolation and sovereignty to join the EU and have reaped great benefits from doing so. Small nations in isolation do not always fare well. That said the price of breaking free from John Bull was seen as a price worth paying. Sadly it took longer to shake off the shackles from the Church and its intrusion into private lives and human rights.
So who would you vote for to bring about this revolutionary change to the UK.In Scotland we are about to be governed by he most right wing government in my lifetime of 75years ,we won’t have voted for it but will have it imposed on us by the votes of the people in England. The failure of the Scottish electorate to vote YES in Sept 2014 has left us wide open to becoming a tax haven for the super rich, whilst most of the population become the cheap labour of an Island off the coast of Europe.As for an independent Scotland being ruled by the Church of Scotland who are we kidding the Scotland of today is more or less a secular country and would become more so after independence which will come sooner rather than later.
Spot on and hence why I voted Brexit in rejection of Neoliberalism or if you like old money Thatcherism.
The Labour Party of course under Blair and up to the Election of Corbyn have not helped the Socialists cause in Scotland or the UK for that matter as he Blair put a red Tie around the Thatcherite charade he created and tried to pass it off as New Labour.
I can’t help but wonder if the ultimate goal was to destroy Socialism for good in the UK leaving nothing of choice just like we have in the EU?
Cameron’s plan was fairly straightforward.
Divide and conquer.
Split Scotland and then split opinions across the wider UK.
It has worked superbly as we now find ourselves in the position where unless Socialists across the UK get their collective shit together we will have Tory rule forever and a day.
If that happens all that has been worked and fought for for Generations will be systematically stripped away.
Nationalism is a hoodwink designed to stir emotions and take away rational thinking.
No Socialist In their right mind would willingly dismiss their values in order to subscribe to an eternity of Thatcherism would they?
No they wouldn’t but that is exactly what the SNP are actively trying to achieve by citing a return to the EU as an answer to all Scotland’s problems.
They are Neoliberal to the core all the rest is smoke and mirrors.
A vote for them this month is a vote wasted and a potential demise of Socialism in Scotland.
I urge all Socialists to rethink this Election very carefully.
Getting the Tory out of Westminster MUST be priority number one this time round.
It really is time for you to forgive Ms. Black. And for you to make up your mind whether you are a Marxist or an ethno-nationalist. Ireland has its own issues with issues around ethnicity. Didn’t a recent report put Ireland alongside Austria as one of the worst countries for workplace racism in the EU? It has its issues like the rest of us, you are not the “unco guid”. Pre-Britain Scotland should not be romanticized either, Gaelic-speaking or otherwise.
Ms Black has to yet address her comments.
Substitute “Pakistani” for “Irish” in her interview and I doubt you would be advocating forgiveness.
Yes, like the rest of the U.K. it’s ANTI WHITE RACISM! We’ll see how Ireland is and how your children and grandchildren cope Phil when they import 1 million African migrants to your little island by 2040. (UN AGENDA) I am sick of this anti British anti European rhetoric that has been brainwashed into our children because of our past history. Thats what it is HISTORY! Our children and grandchildren’s futures are at stake here and you and your like will be to blame for the downfall of our European civilisation, And all under the label of diversity.
Let’s go to Africa and the Middle East now and see what diversity is going on in their lands. The answer is NONE.
I remember walking through the city of Mumbai in 2003 and stumbling across a rather odd thing, a massive, white stone Church, completely at odds with the surrounding cityscape. The doors adorned with the “Church of Scotland” emblem.
My friend and I went in and I was astonished at the amount of plaques covering almost every inch of the walls with the names of those early pioneers of India, almost every one a Scot, every one a military name, regiment etc there were a few civil servants but mostly military.
I hadn’t till then realised the extent of Scottish involvement in the John Company and later took up the opportunity to educate myself on it
Middle management is a phrase, for me, that hits the nail on the head.
The only two recognisable things India of that and later visits (And reading) has that is in my opinion British of any value has been the railway and the bureaucracy, one totally amazing and the other….well no one likes red tape.
Reminds me a phrase we used when I was young when we seen someone doing something a bit mad at someone else’s suggestion “Fired in”
And yea we shat it.
Hi Phil, hope you are well.
Andrew was indeed a fine fellow, a brother of Simon (Peter) and son of Jonah.
While Andrew’s native city was Bethsaida, he and his brother Simon were living together in Capernaum at the time Jesus called them to be “fishers of men”.
Both cities were on the north shore of the Sea of Galilee, where two brothers engaged in the fishing business in partneship with James and John, later to be knowninscripture as “sons of thunder”.
Prior to becoming an apostle of Christ, Andrew was a disciple of John the Baptizer.
In the fall of 29CE he was at Bethany on the east side of the Jordan River and heard John the Baptizer introduce Jesus as the “Lamb of God” (john 1:29). He, along with another disciple {likely Joihn) followed Jesus to his residence and after engaging him in conversation was soon convinced that he found “The lamb of God”
Andrew then ran and got his brother Simon and led him to Jesus (Joh 1. 36-41) After engaging Jesus in further conversation they were convince that they had found the Messiah.
The two brothers then returned to their the fishing business, possibly described today as a “going concern”.
After the arrest of John the baptist, they along with James and John were invited by Jesus to become “Fishers of Men”.
They immediately abondoned thier nets and began accompanying Jesus in His ministry (Mt 4: 18-20) Mr 1:14, 16-20)
In time these four became apostles, among the first four in all the apolostolic lists–Luke 16:14.
Andrew thereafter receives but brief mention.
He and Philip discuss with Jesus the problem of feeding a crowd of about 5,000 people and Andrew offers a suggestion that he himself conciders of little practical value about some available food(John 6:8.9).
(Present day foodbanks spring to mind)
Not much else of Andrew is mentioned in scripture although he was among the four with Jesus on the Mount of Olives when they asked Jesus for the sign that would mark the conclusion of this system, of this world!
No mention of the death of Andrew is covered in scripture.
Andrew is also the patron saint of Greece and of Russia.
A fine fellow indeed, friend of John the Baptist and Jesus himself.
HH
I think so, very unhinged.
Anemic, maybe Phil, however Rome wasn’t built in a day. Even the “big fella” to move things on, had to start from somewhere with the pro treaty thing, leading to arguably the saddest period in Irish history, the Irish Civil War. As you know MC was to pay the ultimate, price, killed by his “own” . Of all the things that sadden me about that period, it was the slaying of Micheal Collins. We live in different times now, and as much as I resent being part of the Union, I am ultimately a democrat, where peace should always be a priority. We never all “shat it” by the way.
I’m sure that you didn’t my friend, but 55% of the voting electorate certainly did.
55% of those who VOTED. I personally don’t know one single person born outside of Scotland who voted for independence. They bought wholeheartedly into the lie that it was the only way we could stay in the EU. Well that one worked didn’t it. Many of those same people have now returned to their country of origin. I doubt very much that many of those remaining would vote the same way again.
Aye. I’m actually starting to find that “shat it” phrase quite offensive Phil. The way the vote was set up basically anyone who was resident in Scotland had a vote. Those born in Scotland but living abroad did not. I do NOT KNOW PERSONALLY one single person born in the Irish Republic who voted for Scottish independence. And when asked how they would have voted in Ireland in an independence vote, the reply was UNANIMOUS. “That was different.” those are the people who SHAT IT.
Oh dear…
Utter tosh from you as usual on this subject. Given the history don’t you think it was quite remarkable that 45% voted Yes at the first time of asking? I’ll tell you now Ireland is nowhere near being reunited and if you truly do understand the history you would know that. Stop putting yourself forward as some intellect on the subject. Your republican credentials are terracing like. Don’t care what relatives you had interned here or there, if true at all. Ireland is riddled with 2 bob truceileers.
“…don’t you think it was quite remarkable that 45% voted Yes at the first time of asking?”
No.
Oh dear what, Phil. Everything I said there is FACTUALLY accurate
“Shat it” simply refers to the country as a whole not individuals and, however crude, reflects that voted against independence.
I’ve not lived in Scotland for 40 years and its right and proper that I didn’t have a vote just as its right and proper that those living in Scotland did irrespective of where they were born.
What an odd comment regarding Irish people; what was your sample size, as I’d expect a sizable number to have done so?
The ones that “shat it” were the ones that didn’t vote at all – those are the real cowards in any election/referendum. Those that do vote at least have the courage of their convictions to do so.
Bang on. I’ve ALWAYS believed that it should be a legal requirement to vote. It’s very easy to get round the “right to abstain” question. Simply put an abstention box on the ballot paper. At least that way it’s a registered abstention.
I agree with this when it comes to a vote in a referendum the result can be life changing for all concerned and future Generations.
A selfish act in my opinion.
I think, the only country in history who had the opportunity of independence without having to go to war, and shat it! Heartbreaking!
Why the focus on the imperial past of Scotland while ignoring the Irish role? Were there no irish employed in India? No Irish regiments in the British army that built the empire? Connaught Rangers anyone?
Genuinely interested in why you feel Scotland’s imperial past is more relevant than Ireland’s,
The term “middle management” is a clue.
There is no Irish parallel to the role of the Scots in the British Empire.
Nor is there an Irish Darien in Central America.
At the start of the 17th century, the Flight of the Earls robbed Ireland of our native aristocracy.
In the same decade that the first British monarch (a Scot) brought Scotland and England closer together.
The Catholic Emancipation of 1829 comes far too late for the Irish to be embedded into the DNA of the Empire’s management structure.
At the start of the 20th Century, some Irishmen were ascending to the ranks of the Imperial machine, but they were rare (O’Dwyer in the Punjab).
Shashi Tharoor specifically mentions the Scots not the Irish.
Unlike you, he has a firm grasp of history.
Thanks for taking the time to reply. For the avoidance of doubt 😉 I don’t claim a great grasp of history. I’m a maths and science guy so forgive my lack of knowledge.
I can see there are differences but the image of Frongoch could have a parallel with images of Irish soldiers in India, those wages being sent home to Dundee were also being sent home to Dublin. So the difference is in the presence, and actions, of the aristocracy. The question is why you think that is relevant to talk of independence today? Do you think that Scotland does not understand it’s role in the empire and that will cause it problems as an independent nation? Do you think that the pride in the British empire that remains will prevent independence? Or are you saying that those that wrap themselves in the union jack, sing rule brittania and all the rest are a problem that will be shared by those who finally manage to achieve a united ireland and an independent scotland?
Let’s hope the “radical intellectualism and a collectivist humanitarian spirit” from both sides of the Irish sea can come together to find a solution to that particular problem.
A reasonable starting point on the subject.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotland-British-Empire-History-Companion/dp/0198794622
Didn’t the Irish invade Iona?
Iona was part of a region known as Dalriada if my memory serves me correctly. It took in most of modern day Ulster, the Western es, most of modern day Argyll and a bit further south. I believe that it had its own monarchy and existed from about the 6th til the 10th century.
When I say my memory, I don’t mean I was there!
Western Isles.
They also Invaded Wales and the shorty of England prior to the Invasion/Invite of the Normans.
Of Course this was before Wales,Ireland,Scotland and England were even known by such names.
History is not a static event or series of events this is why we have to be careful when cherry picking from it in order to back a certain standpoint.
I doubt there is a Nation on Earth that has been formed without serious infringement of what we know call human rights in the modern age?
It’s just that Britain were very good at it and as a result more land was stolen and more people suffered as a consequence.
No Empire after all was ever built on Chocolates and Roses.
Where we have ended up now of course is we have populations swearing blindly to man made borders and man made flags.
Meanwhile the poor in each Society continue to have the urine extracted from them as those who control live a lavish existence.
Nationalism is a tool these types use to fuck with our instinct to defend our patch and distrust those we don’t know.
Nowadays of course this comes in the form of Jingoistic nonsense wrapped in a flag of your own particular preference.
The bottom line is we as individuals need to start getting along and sharing the wealth in order to create a fairer Society.
All I see is layers of greed from top to middle and the detritus is left for us at bottom to sift through for scraps.
I could be wrong of course BUT for the last 5 Decades it is all I have witnessed in various Countries around the World.
Take the Borders and flags out of the equation and what have you got left?
Humans trying to survive as best we can.
Same as we always have.
If each of us take a DNA test I guarantee the results will not be 100% anything.
Time folk woke up to that reality and binned the Nationalist b/s that’s been spoon fed to us from day 1 week 1 of our existence.
Ireland will be a United.
It’s problems and issues will not magically disappear when it does.
What about the brave Irishman that served in the armies of the East India Company. At least 7 VC recipients.
Phil
As a Scot with irish decent I am appalled by your tone regarding Scottish independence .
We catholic/ protestant had the vote probably more protestant than catholic voted to break away from the union
As a republican I am proud to be part of a nation that is forward thinking.
To me ,that fact is more encouraging than those whom felt the need
TO GO HOME.
Oh dear
I will say it for you Phil, oh dear
Oh Dear as you say Phil! Still drivel at history. As ex-SNP I have got to laugh at the plastic nationalists with their “Independence” in the EU and then being DEPENDENT and in massive debt as Ireland is to the Vatican/Rothschilds EU Central Bank that is going to rob and rape Ireland soon the way it is with Greece stealing everything that they Greek people own and privatising everything over to themselves and their pals – The real MAFIA that has been controlling everything for a very long time and this following link is how these people think of the dumb masses including you and how they control everything via the Freemasons etc – the Vaticans Knights of Malta is actually above all of this with both the Rothschilds and Queen being Knights of Malta as well with the Pope at the top of the tree :
https://humansarefree.com/2016/09/the-house-of-rothschild-the-freemasons-the-federal-reserve-cartel.html
Ha Ha Ha Independence from all of this when they have got you all divided and fighting each other – the Three INDEPENDENT City States that really rule this world and most countries including the NOT Independent UK, Ireland, US, EU etc with the VATICAN at the top of the tree :
https://humansarefree.com/2017/04/the-vatican-city-the-city-of-london-the-district-of-columbia-thats-who-really-owns-usa.html
Is this a cry for help?
James Houston, you sir are a character and no mistake. I haven’t laughed so much since the last time the good ‘ould Celts put the Huns to the sword. Keep on posting mate. You brighten up my day just by your presence here. Hail Hail to you, my good man.
Congratulations. I’m pretty sure 135 words without a full-stop or a comma beats the record you set in a previous rant on the same topic.
You really need to get out more often.